Solid Edge, the latest version.

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

IanT,

I may have crossed some wires here, but I was refering to Design Spark sketches, once you've used it, it's gone unless you wind back any work to the point of sketching. Not a very clear explanation, but my internet work is done on a different computer to my cad work, so I haven't got any cad programmes running at the moment. Design Spark doesn't keep a copy of any sketches.

Lee

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

Still looking Martin. It might be there, I just haven't found it yet. Then again, the ability to look at such a surface might not exist….

Lee

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 01/01/2023 13:59:25:

You can use F360 in a similar way by turning off the timeline. But this does make creating robust, easily understood models more difficult. That's not particularly important with a simple part, but when working with a complicated assembly being able to track the development is far more important to me.

Starting out with SE I worried about synchronous mode's total disregard of previous orders. And it is a problem! The SE documentation is coy about the circumstances that need a change of mode, but it's significant the software allows the operator to mix and match – any combination of ordered and synchronous in the same part.

Problem is the operator has to know SE well enough to play two modes skilfully, which is far from obvious to a beginner! Fortunately, I've found that, in practice, synchronous mode works better than ordered about 90% of the time, and losing the history rarely matters much. But it took me a while to get used to the advantages of synchronous, and it isn't always the best answer! Worse, combining two different approaches in the same software makes it harder to learn. So far SE is the hardest 3D-CAD I've tackled, partly because of the FreeCAD/Fusion methods I had to unlearn first.

A beginner choosing CAD software risks favouring ease of learning over raw capability. Great in the short term, and no problem if one's needs are limited, but being easy to learn might bite back later if the user grows into more sophisticated modelling requirements. I don't think there's an easy answer.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 01/01/2023 16:07:22

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Fusion doesn't allow you to mix them; once you've 'deleted' the timeline, you can't go back. I've been using it for about six years now, and have never found any reason to do this. Although I did install SE, it needs more time than I can justify to undo the F360 thinking, and particularly the UI, to benefit. When using synchronous mode, do all of the parts that were created using projected geometry still update when the original is changed? That is fundamental for the way I design things.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 01/01/2023 16:47:44:

Fusion doesn't allow you to mix them; once you've 'deleted' the timeline, you can't go back. I've been using it for about six years now, and have never found any reason to do this. Although I did install SE, it needs more time than I can justify to undo the F360 thinking, and particularly the UI, to benefit. When using synchronous mode, do all of the parts that were created using projected geometry still update when the original is changed? That is fundamental for the way I design things.

I never deleted the Fusion timeline! I think you're right not to jump from Fusion to SE just to get synchronous mode. I prefer Fusion's UI to SE because SE is more complicated and less intuitive. (Probably because SE predates Fusion by a couple of decades, and lessons were learnt from their clunkiness!) I like Fusion a lot. My main reason for dumping Fusion are it's in the cloud, which brings privacy and control issues. I don't like my designs being stored on the web, where security and availability rely on AutoCAD getting it right and the internet working. I'd rather host the software locally, do my own backups, and be able to do CAD without needing a network connection. A second serious problem is that Autodesk can add or remove features at any time. It's entirely their privilege, but I don't like it! They've already reduced a number of features in the hobby version as a way of encouraging users to buy a full licence, which I can't justify.

Although SE is harder to learn and arguably less slick than Fusion, it's fully functional except files can't be exchanged with the professional version, which I don't need. The licence is on a timer, about 2.5 years, so the plug could be pulled, but I get a lot more notice.

I maintain FreeCAD skills as well, because it's fully open and unlikely to disappear for commercial reasons. On the downside, it's not completely stable, and some major features like Assembly and joints don't exist yet.

Dave

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

I had a reply to my reqest on the Solid Edge forum about the existance of an automatic clipping plane. I have had this reply.

"There is nothing automatic that will create a clipped view from the current Sketch plane to some specified depth. You will need to create use the Clipping Plane command or create PMI Sections ahead of time and then apply as needed.

FYI, the Clipping Plane distance will automatically be referenced from your current sketch plane as "0", so it's easily done while in the sketch…"

I haven't tried this yet, but creating a clipping plane from within a sketch seems to be a fair workround. Not as good as automatic clipping, but close.

Lee

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

I realy did give Solid Edge my best shot, but I have now uninstalled the software. I know what I'm doing in Design Spark 5, and it does nearly everything I want. SE offered more, painfully!

Thanks for the advice.

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

I bit the bullit and downloaded Solid Edge 2023 today to see if the features I felt were missing had been added. They hadn't, and without them I couldn't use it. I thought I needed SE because of the mirror feature which Design Spark doesn't have, but then I realised I could mirror any STL file in the slicer anyway. So the latest version of SE has been un-installed.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I spotted this new intro/overview of Solid Edge CE 2023 this morning and I thought it was quite well done in terms of demo'ing SE's Synchonous mode. He also uses a few of the many keyboard commands available and which are well worth learning…as they don't always get mentioned by YouTubers…

Solid Edge 2023

Regards,

IanT

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

Thanks Ian, I will watch the video soon. Even though I don't do many designs in SE, I did do this.

I have used a twenty pence for scale. The stand on the right was designed in Designspark. I used it to display a feather used to clean the inside of an oboe belonging to a friend. I didn't like the text on it so I tried designing it in SE. I had much better control of the text, it's position and extrusion. I can't say it was easy, but I did it! I had a partial fail 3D printing the first stand and I had to repair it with car filler. I will paint the SE stand, not sure what colour, and painting the text in a contrasting colour will be easier thanks to its size.

Lee

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I guess it is a mainly a matter of familiarity Lee.

I was a long time user of TurboCAD for my 2D drafting and became fairly proficient in it. When I wanted to design for 3D printing. I originally used Open SCAD (which is very easy to get started with). However, SCAD didn't meet my 'engineering' needs (and I didn't want to run two different 2D/3D systems) so I settled on Solid Edge after a brief go at Fusion.

I will admit I struggled a bit at first. I think the transition from 2D to 3D 'thinking' was part of the problem. It's not just using the 3D tools, you have to change your mindset too. I've pretty much made that move now and things that were hard then seem fairly straight forward now. I will admit that I haven't mastered all of what SE has to offer but I can do pretty much all of the work I need to do quite easily now – to the point where I can design a new part over coffee, export it and have it printing in no time at all.

However, I did recently need to modify some existing STL files (without access to the CAD originals) so had to use SE's 'Reverse Engineering' feature. This is a stepped process and I don't fully undertand much of the detail but I did finally manage to make all of changes I wanted. I will admit to struggling on the 'wheel' STL though. I wanted to change the flange profile and just couldn't manage it to do it. In the end I simply 'cut-off' the offending flange profile, drew my own flange in SE (to G3 standards) and made a new wheel assembly. It was a cheat I'm afraid but I finished up with wheels that will run on my track – which should please my Grandson!

Regards,

 

IanT

Edited By IanT on 11/04/2023 10:57:36

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by IanT on 11/04/2023 10:46:40:

…

I will admit I struggled a bit at first. I think the transition from 2D to 3D 'thinking' was part of the problem. It's not just using the 3D tools, you have to change your mindset too. I've pretty much made that move now and things that were hard then seem fairly straight forward now. I will admit that I haven't mastered all of what SE has to offer but I can do pretty much all of the work I need to do quite easily now – to the point where I can design a new part over coffee, export it and have it printing in no time at all.

…

Me too! My learning experience hit the mindset problem hard at first. Thinking in 3D by learning FreeCAD after years of 2D dogma was a culture shoc. Design thinking is sort of inverted, and a 2D approach to 3D can be a serious obstacle. It requires un-learning which is seriously difficult to do!

FreeCAD to Fusion360 was less shocking because many of the principles are similar, though Fusion adds many new features, notably Assembly, and has a different interface.

FreeCAD/Fusion to Solid Edge was more painful, because synchronous requires another mindset change. Synchronous is quick and powerful but it's ability to move the foundations is disconcerting, and it's wheel facility introduces multiple complicated manipulations – wonderful when invoked deliberately, deeply confusing when a beginner drives it ignorantly!

Of the three, I found Fusion easiest to learn, perhaps because FreeCAD having similarities broke the ground . Being a relative newcomer to the market, Fusion's controls avoid many of the early growing pains evident in earlier software. Growing pains show in SE as differences between the same functions in Ordered and Synchronous mode, where the later Synchronous versions are a shade more logical and organised. Probably not smart to learn Ordered and then Synchronous because it's a confusing overhead and most things are best done entirely in Synchronous mode. Ordered is useful in certain cases, but best used when Synchronous struggles, which is rare. SE2023 made a number of worthwhile improvements to the cockpit – not altering what tools do, but presenting them consistently. Unfortunately, the tidy up has forced me to do some unlearning!

So far none of the CAD systems I've looked at have been easy to learn. They all required significant time and effort. And very like learning to ride a bicycle – impossible for ages, then something clicks and away you go.

Dave

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

I just upgraded last years Solid edge to the current 2023 version. You have to delete the old version first.
As I have stated previously I have done all of my 3D Cad design using Autocad .dwg format Any 3D drawing I have posted on this site was drawn with Autocad. Having used it from version one I find it easy to use. it is very easy for me to do 3D design sketches due to the ease of joining and manipulating local within the current drawing geometry and "Xref" parts, components shown in the current drawing but in a separate file. I have a perpetual 2021 licence that cannot be updated unless I move to subscription at a cost of double the old maintenance fee. No Way!

Fusion 360 cad is not my favourite design application for several reasons:
I don't like cloud storage. It bogs down from time to time, Although it supports separate components they are all in the one file. Import export is severely restricted to only a couple of formats. The free version is crippled in various ways. and even the Standard paid version at about 600 AUD dollars a year has missing bits that you can only access with the Advanced versions, each costing around 1600 AUD dollars a year. Oh and if you want simulation that's extra you have to buy cloud credits to use it more thousands per year. I guess you could say I am not a fan.

Solid edge Community edition 2023 (Siemens states the licence will last for three years from the date installed) I Guess they will honer the contract. Well I hope so.
This is a powerful 3D design tool, that ticks many of the boxes for me. It is not cloud based, the application and design files are stored on my computer. There are part files and assembly files separate on disk, that works well for me I have a library of previously drawn parts. Oh and you can drag and drop files from other applications into the currently open drawing. Including DWG files. The translation is pretty good Most of the time 100% and the dragged in file can be immediately edited. It can export many formats. Finite element analysis is built in no charges to run it. The same applies to generative design. Basic engineering elements are available. Gears Shafts racks etc. You can specify them by size and tooth count, or input the torque, speed, and materials etc and the tool will size a gear pair for you. Its is a very comprehensive design tool. It supports 3D printers but not CAM.

Solid edge Community edition 2023 does not have any CAM functionality. It is a available at a cost of several thousand dollars. Really the only downside, For manual machinists it will not matter.

I intend to learn Solid Edge Having worked on it over the past 2 weeks I realise that it will take some time to be as fluent as I am with Autocad. I think the effort will be worth it.

So I am back to Fusion for Cam, Yes at the moment the best deal on offer. The crippled free version will do 3D cam without rapid moves and some other machining strategies. If you have a fast CNC machine you will have to pay more. The standard version as stated previously approx 600 AUD dollars per year removes some of the limitations. As expected if you have 5 Axis you need the more advanced version. Isn't modern marketing great Hmmm

So where from here? I have a new CNC machine on order and will drive it with Fusion for the time being. Hopefully the free version, unless they play more tricks to make people pay up for at least the standard version. No I am not a fan!

One possibility is FreeCad, It does include CAM, I have been watching it for a while now I don't think its quite ready yet and being open source the development is slow.

Solid Works also have an almost free version, Is it 100 dollars a year? I believe there is some sort of cam attached?
I believe It is web based so I passed over it.

You never know something else might pop up!

Edited By John McNamara on 11/04/2023 15:18:21

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Given the cost of the X11 I would have thought the comparatively small cost of F360 or similar CAM would be worth paying to get the best out of the machine. I manage with the Free version for what I do but if I had that Haas Compact would want to be making full use of it's rapid rates, multi axis, etc

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Agree Jason
As I said the free version has restricted functionality so we will have to pay for the standard version. I don't want to get pushed further onto Autodesk's gravy train. Solid edge will help avoid that. The new machine will be used by me and my son. we are researching some ideas that have so far only existed on the disk drive and on paper. We don't plan to take in job shop work. He is still at University. We comply with the incensing terms for Solid edge at least for a while. While it is easy to hoist the jolly rodger we prefer to keep things shipshape and above board.

Oh I have found that as well as the many other formats Autocad and Solid edge can export 3d step files. These can be imported into the free version of fusion 360 without difficulty. The free version has very limited import capability.

Open source FEA tool
An engineer friend uses and highly recommends this tool, I downloaded and installed it, no problem, I have not tried it yet but it looks impressive. It is being actively updated, important for open source software.
https://prepomax.fs.um.si/

Edited By John McNamara on 12/04/2023 01:00:58

Edited By John McNamara on 12/04/2023 01:21:56

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That is how I do all of mine, export a STEP file from Alibre and do the CAM in Free F360, do make the odd alteration to the part using F360 when needed. For example I've just done a couple of name plates which had different serial numbers so did the changes to the numbers in F360 that way I don't need to import a new STEP file and do all the rest of the CAM again. Also do similar to blank off a hole to stop the CNC wanting to send the cutter down it on certain paths.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

I'm another "design in SE, export .stp, import to F360 for CAM" user. The restrictions in the free F360 version were very frustrating, especially after moving to a CNC mill with a semi-automated tool change procedure (tool change is manual but uses tool-height sensor to automatically set tool height offset before continuing).

I use the F360 plug-in from here which replaces g1 pseudo-rapids with real g0 (misses a few but does a pretty good job) and also allows multi-tool gcode in one file with tool-change commands. I've been using it extensively for a few years and seems to do a good job. Makes up for the worst limitations of the free version's CAM (although still only 3-axis…)

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