Solid Edge Community Edn. – Gen. Qs. Thereof

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

Nigel: Could you draw a rough pencil & paper sketch of what you're trying to do, and post it here?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just looked at Nigel's album, the engine is at the front, cylinder "block" at the top and valves should have been on the ends so a quick edit of my sketch needed too.

holes for valve chest studs added, drilled passages in place of cored rectangular ones and a bit of fancy weight saving thrown in for good measure

Edited By JasonB on 01/01/2022 15:50:06

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Gary –

I tried to copy as a jpg image what I'd drawn but it loses the rendering, leaving a confusing wire-frame. However –

– Thank you Jason.

Yes – nearly as I have it although I am making the valve-chests as separate parts, not integral as you have them. Also the two side-recesses I have drew are simply flat-bottomed, not profiled.

I have provided my covers with 6 studs, with the steam passages as two drillings on each side of the outermost studs (rather as on Luker's 'Ballarat&#39. It is not easy to tell on the photo the prototype cover fastenings.

The only significant difference between your 3D image and mine is the valve-chests.

'

Now, what CAD package do you use? It's clearly not TurboCAD 19 Deluxe. The green rectangles are very different from TC's 'Work Planes". TC uses only one work-plane at a time, visible on request, but its system of co-ordinates, WP and view-direction menus allow building onto any selected facet of the drawn object. Only, it is a very confusing, baffling system.

The default WP, called "World", is the imaginary floor for Extruding 2D upwards to form the 3D image. Extending an extrusion beyond the end surfaces, then Subtracting it, is the only way to show a hole in an 3D object.

====

Nicholas –

Your illustration is nearly as I have reached so far, although lying on its side. And with 6 studs, because that's a nice thing to draw! (And probably original, though hard to know for sure.)

Mine is fully extruded from a construction of rectangle and circles – the only practical method in TurboCAD.

(The alternative way, assembly from library solids, is harder. It may fail too, because TC uses at least 3 internal ways to generate 3D figures; with correspondingly different, often unexpected, results.)

'

… and David Jupp–

"Box" is TC's term for an editable cuboid from its solids library. To form the side recesses and ports, the available method is to sink a "Box" into the surface, then Subtract it from the surroundings.

It worked for the recesses but I was unable to repeat the exercise for the 6 ports.

'

I must admit I had not thought to use Mirror. I have just tried it – it does work in 3D. Nor to use Radial Copy for the studs, probably because I was preoccupied with them not breaking into the passages.

That is why I am trying to re-design the block: I started making it years ago, from some basic drawings, and it is accumulating all sorts of physical problems I did not foresee!

The methods I use in TurboCAD work, but are slow, clumsy and not as TurboCAD intends.

===

A note on terms and concepts:

TurboCAD (or at any rate 19 Deluxe) does not have "Constraints", "Sketch" or "Symmetric".

It does let you connect entities, symmetrically or otherwise, very efficiently and accurately, using the "Reference Point" embedded in any library or drawn entity; but I have never been able to make that work.

Instead I have to use its simple "Assemble" by, say, vertices; then calculated cross- moves.

Boolean Adding and Subtracting are fundamental in TC for combining inter-leaved entities into single ones. Eg, rectangles into the sections for angle- and channel- material.

TurboCAD is meant to be driven without doing its sums for it!

===

Re. live discussion: Sorry, but I do not have the equipment. (I have just sent an apology for absence from a forthcoming AGM to be held in Zoom.)

One member here has kindly offered me a memory-card to try in my PC. The computer, only 8 years old, will already take WIN-10 but if the RAM extension works, installing both will extend the computer's useful life and let me try SolidEdge; without needing a completely new system.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That was done to show how a typical 3D CAD package would be used to model the part, I used Alibre but Fusion, SE(3D) would be much the same as would other 3D packages.

Pity none of the SE users have not commented or shown how it can be done

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Nigel

A good starting point for SE, tutorial video for I believe SE community edition can be found at the link below.

**LINK**

Emgee

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

I'm very familiar with Fusion and, not being a SE user, took a look at Emgee's link and found it rather like a magician pulling rabbits out of a hat. So I looked around to see if there was anything that suited me better, and found **THIS** link, which is the 1st of a series. You can skip the 1st 5 minutes 'cos it's all about downloading SE, but the rest is fine.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 01/01/2022 23:29:54:

…The computer, only 8 years old, will already take WIN-10 but if the RAM extension works, installing both will extend the computer's useful life and let me try SolidEdge; without needing a completely new system.

Computers are like dogs Nigel. Multiply their age in years by seven! Your computer is 56, far from decrepit, but not in the same league as a new one when it comes to a sporty activity like running modern CAD. Are you fit enough to play rugger? I'm well past it!

Extending the RAM is well worth doing if someone has given you a module, but it won't solve the other problems. I see Nigel's posts contain many examples of software not working as expected, causing a fog of confusion. It's symptomatic of a computer that's not in good order: hardware underpowered for current software, DLL incompatibilities, choked registry, inefficient I/O, and a myriad of other minor nuisances. Is it a good idea to loyally stick to what you know even though the hardware's slow, the software's out-of-date, and the system's full of invisible crud?

Keep it Simple Stupid is always good advice but not obvious here where KISS should be applied. The choice is for Nigel to stay in his comfort zone and try and fix complicated incompatibility issues if they ambush him, or to eliminate incompatibility and hardware problems at the cost of buying a new computer and having to learn Microsoft's latest.

I suggest it's hard enough to learn an advanced CAD package working properly on a fast, clean modern computer. Really difficult learn software that's misbehaving due to being squeezed on to a slow clogged machine riddled with obscure age related bugs. Much easier to adapt to Windows 11 I think, and then have a go at CAD.

Not sure what to say about TurboCAD other than it's not well supported by lots of forum members, so our help can't be relied on. Unfortunate that forum members seem to have gone for 3CAD packages that work somewhat differently from TC, and have different terminology. Another difficult choice for Nigel.

Dave

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Well that video is about 'ST4' Gary and some eleven years old now. New users will be using SE 2022.

I've found these YTs by Dr Sief (made for his graduate engineering students) to be very good for my needs. The 'Labs' cover the basics of SE and the 'Exercises' are a blend of various SE techniques to practice with. He doesn't rush and you (e.g. me ) can follow what's going on. Some 'CAD' videos go so fast (with so little explanation) that they are frankly quite useless as learning material.

Solid Edge Videos – by Dr M Sief

However, to repeat my previous advice – there are very good SE 'getting going' tutorials available on the Siemens site (accessible from SE-CE) and these are a good starting point – but I do like the videos to remind myself of some things – a kind of video aide memoir for old(er) folk!

Regards,

IanT

 

Edited By IanT on 02/01/2022 12:25:56

[IanTParticipant @iant]

PS

"Pity none of the SE users have not commented or shown how it can be done"

I'm afraid to admit that I've spent a great deal of time this past week bonding with my Grandson (and his new game console) – learning another new digital skill (Minecraft Dungeons) – very addictive I might add.

So just as well that he's taken it home with him.

Regards,

IanT

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Gary Wooding on 02/01/2022 11:34:58:

I'm very familiar with Fusion and, not being a SE user, took a look at Emgee's link and found it rather like a magician pulling rabbits out of a hat. So I looked around to see if there was anything that suited me better, and found **THIS** link, which is the 1st of a series. You can skip the 1st 5 minutes 'cos it's all about downloading SE, but the rest is fine.

Gary

If you use the Settings tab you can slow the video down to assist viewing, especially cursor movement.

Emgee

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I have now sent a request to TurboCAD's own Forum for help with the wire-frame problem.

It seems to need attention via a "Viewport Properties" tool that does not exist in my edition of TC! There is a table called 'View', giving each Viewport's settings and values, but it is an analysis, not control, tool.

++++

Dave –

I realise my computer is "old" by many criteria but its own analysis and maintenance tools seem to think it OK and showed nothing too out of kilter. Other than a lot of unloaded up-dates of course. I do not know what their lack is doing. It seems to operate 'Word', 'Excel', the printers, etc. properly.

Still…. the extra memory might help my existing software; but I appreciate only a full system replacement would answer all problems. I thought I'd be better going to an independent retailer rather than Currys, but that's not necessary technically. All the PCs on sale are or can be sold with W10 or 11, or can be up-dated from W10 to W11.

So they will run SE(C) and everything else I want and more – but I am concerned with them accepting my existing version of MS 'Office' and 3rd-party programmes other than TC. I want to avoid a costly, open-ended subscription to 'Office' for exactly the same tasks. An independent retailer might better match PC and me.

I don't know how much the odd behaviour of parts of TC can be blamed on the computer. TC 19 Deluxe will run on XP so hardly stretches this WIN-7 computer. I understand your point that an older OS not supported for a long time could affect how any programme runs; but more likely, most of my difficulties are from not understanding TC properly.

One point about SE(C) I have remembered, is that as well as help from its users here, there are also a few users in my own model-engineering society. One used to teach SE or SW, not to trade level, but within a school D&T syllabus.

'

As for "rugger"… At my age? I never was any good at sports but despite your analogy grading me at probably WIN-5, I am still caving! Just not as well as I did 40 years ago. Mind you, gravity has strengthened – lathe chucks and milling-vices have become heavier…

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

A thought….

Not strictly relevant to CAD though still pertinent, a few months ago I registered for on-line banking.

It worked fine in that one session – I was able to register then view my balances in the same session. Next time, it would not work.

Spotting the thread elsewhere here about Direct Debits and things, a thought struck me: perhaps it failed because I am still using WIN-7?

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 03/01/2022 16:03:42

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I wouldn't think it's anything to do with Win 7 Nigel – but assuming nothing else has changed ( "it would not work" is a rather broad fault description) it might be that your browser needs updating?

Regards,

IanT

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you Ian.

Possibly, but I don't know how I'd know if the browser (Firefox) is up-to-date or not.

I forget what happened… or didn't happen. I think it would not recognise my password for a start.

All other sites appear to open correctly.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Nigel – to check your version of Firefox, click on the three horizontal lines up in the top left hand corner. This will give you a drop-down list of commands, click on "Help" which is second from the bottom, then "About Firefox" at the bottom of the list then displayed. You should get a pop-up in the middle of the screen which shows the version you have – the current version is 95.0.2

Hope this helps

Rob

[Anonymous]

Few points:

 

– are you actually entering the login credentials rather than let the browser insert them? If you are, either the username/password has been remembered/written down incorrectly or it's screwed up at the other end and you'll need to re-register. or, if the username/email is correct, the site should give you the opportunity to reset your password.

– if the browser is inserting them for you and the bank doesn't recognise you, try entering them manually instead. If it works, the browser should ask you if you want to change what it has saved.

– not exactly the same because I'm in a different country, but my online banking really acts up if I've been using a vpn and forgot to turn it off.

Edited By Peter Greene on 03/01/2022 21:59:48

[Anonymous]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 03/01/2022 21:48:22:

the current version is 95.0.2

… or if you are on the esr channel, 91.4.1esr

[Anonymous]

(screw up)

Edited By Peter Greene on 03/01/2022 21:59:25

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Oh well – this thread lingers around now over 5 pages, and going back a year or so there are several others under the Turbo CAD title. So, after long and hard thinking, I want to present my personal opinion about these problems.
First question: why is it so hard to learn CAD? I think it has a lot do do with the terrifying not ergonomic and unsightly user interfaces in most of these programs.
I want to show that with some examples. I looked at Jason's video on page 4, and enlarged it as far as I could. In the tool bar I counted about 60 icons or tools, maybe some more. The enlarged picture is a bit hazy. This is Alibre, everybody here knows what Jason uses.
Then I tried the same with Solid edge and Onshape. About the latter I will tell you more in a moment.
On Solid edge I counted about 80 Icons – and now the crux of this. My monitor is about 35 cm wide. But on this size I have to use a loupe to see the tools large enough.
Onshape has in the sketch mode about 24 icons/tools. and in the 3D mode about 27. All black on white, no fancy colors.

Solid edge:

Onshape sketch

Onshape 3D

So, for heavens sake, why is no one (and especially Mr Graham) trying that program. It costs nothing more than filling out a registry form, runs in any browser (read no special computer resources needed) and makes very nice workshop drawings.
Now I hear the howling: it is in THE CLOUD!!! Yes, what's the problem I ask. This forum here is from the user's viewpoint also in the cloud. And the drawings become PUBLIC!!! Can you imagine how many such public drawings exist. Say 100000 users, each 10 documents, that's already a million. And I remember very well the beginnings of Alibre, then called Xcad, and they promised the first 100000 people would get it for free. I was in the 90thousends, and I got it! What I mean is that an estimate of 100000 users is possibly much too small. Further, there is no search function, and you can give a name which means nothing , should someone see it.
Btw. Onshape has a forum, and when I had some problems I got very competent answers, from users and even from the developers.
And one more thought, a bit naughty but necessary: why are people afraid of the cloud, but use their ffull name in a forum with worldwide access?
Ok, this entry was very hard work for me, so I stop better here and wish all a Happy New Year

Hans

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Well I wouldn't judge a CAD system by the number of icons you can count Hans.

For many years, I used TurboCAD by using the 'dropdown' menus before learning that I could completely remove them altogether and just work from the keyboard. The SE user interface is completely customisable and you can set it up to suit your preferences (and skills) or just select a template. Indeed when starting out, you are offered the choice of a simpler set of tools should you wish it. I decided to learn the "Balanced" tool set recommended for 'regular' users.

However, there are many shortcuts available. Hold the right mouse key down and you can access 16 commands from the quick access quadrant (not sure what it's really called) and you can again set this up to suit your own preferences. Most operations open a new 'bar' with context sensitive options which I find very straight forward in use. If I cannot find a command, then the 'find a command' (too obvious?) box will offer you options that might meet your needs – hover over one and it highlights the command icon and gives a brief animation. If you click it, then it's just like using the actual icon itself. Much harder to describe than use frankly…

As to my feeling about the Cloud, it's to do with the fact that I prefer 'local' operation and storage (nothing to do with privacy of data) as I use the Cloud for some backups – but the key thing is that I control access – not some one else.

As far as I can tell, with SE 2022 installed locally, it will not change (or be changed) overnight, unless I decide to update it – my current license having three years left. I obviously have local copies of all my work too, again under my direct control. We can argue the pros and cons but it all comes down to preference and these are mine. As I've said before, everyone has different needs and if you've invested time & effort in a particular product, that will most likely also strongly dictate your views in this area.

However, I do agree that you can agonise over these choices for far too long, when sometimes it may be much simpler to just decide which CAD solution you like the look of and just go for it.

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 03/01/2022 23:39:18

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well if you are choosing by number of icons along the top of the page then Fusion must win hands down as there are not many and they don't even stretch all the way across the screen despite being a lot larger than most. Plus it's still free and a lot more capable than Onshape.

The downside to a small number of icons is that you often then get a big drop down as soon as you click one of them so end up having to click twice – once on the main icon and then again on the dropdown. Other programs put all the commonly used ones so they are one click away.

Just had a look at my Alibre and I would say of the ones along the top I only use 15-18 so that's half and you soon get to know what ones are where so don't have to scan through all of them to find the one you want. Alibre will also grey out icons that can't be used and only liven them up when they can be used eg circular pattern is blanked out until there is something sketched on the screen that could be put into a circular pattern.

I'm quite happy to use the cloud, all my CAM stuff on F360 has been fine that way as are other forms of storage.

Edited By JasonB on 04/01/2022 08:49:17

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 02/01/2022 21:23:06:

……

So they will run SE(C) and everything else I want and more – but I am concerned with them accepting my existing version of MS 'Office' and 3rd-party programmes other than TC. I want to avoid a costly, open-ended subscription to 'Office' for exactly the same tasks. An independent retailer might better match PC and me.

I…

I can't help with TurboCAD.

However I use both FreeCAD and SE(Community Edition). One thing I have learnt is that it is probably better to stick with one program until you get familiar with it. Switching from package to package only adds confusion, at least in my case.

I would strongly endorse IanT recommendation of the Dr Seif SE videos 

Regarding MS Office,, You don't say what version you are using. I have Office 2010 Quick Start edition working fine on my laptop, This was originally Win 7 but then upgraded to Win 10. I have had no problems with it. I also have had a 2003 Edition working fine on Win 7 but I cannot remember if it worked on Win 10 . However I now have LibreOffice on a win 10 desktop. I regularly pass Word and Excel documents back and forth between the two computers and never had a problem opening or saving documents so compatibility seems excellent. i rarely use PowerPoint . Unless you have some special files associated with either Excel or Word, i would suggest trying LibreOffice as a replacement on a new computer if your version of Office does not work.

Edited By Gerard O'Toole on 04/01/2022 09:05:38

Edited By Gerard O’Toole on 04/01/2022 09:05:57

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Rob –

Firefox details – Thank you

'

Versaboss et al –

Yes, a huge tool-bar clutter is intimidating but entirely optional in TurboCAD, as Ian points out.

You can select and display the tool-bars by categories, from a tick-box library one click away. It's just as easy to put them back, too. You could borrow one for a given stage in one drawing, perhaps for functions you don't often use, then return it.

Accomplished TurboCAD users tell me the tool symbols' equivalent control-key combinations that TC calls "SEKEs", are a lot quicker and avoid clutter. I understand that. There are many in the MS 'Office' packages, and I use a few. However I find it easier to use the tool-bars. For the SEKEs I'd need a printed index, rather defeating the object.

'

Gerard –

I take your point about "… until you get familiar with it" .

Hmmm. Taking me a very long time to get used to TurboCAD! I can now produce sensible workshop drawings in TC's 2D mode, but I have always been a slow learner in anything and struggle with its 3D mode.

I believe our capacity to learn anything has a limit specific to that subject and yourself; although [subject * person] is nowhere near as neat and definite as [Bar * litres]. Extending the analogy, when you are preparing a boiler's hydraulic test, when it is full any added water simply overflows to waste. So I worry if my mental "boiler" labelled CAD, is very close to full.

.

I don't know my edition of MS 'Office'. It is happy in WIN-XP, and with any luck it would like living in WIN-10 / 11 in a new computer with all that extra room to romp around.

I have installed Libre Office – recommended by another ME Forum user a while ago. Testing, it opened an 'Excel' spreadsheet and is fine with the data including formulae, but was puzzled by one of the graphs and tried showing it apparently as a copied image. However, making new graphs in Libre looks not very different from the original MS 'Excel' way, so just extra work, not serious technically.

I did not try the graph that spreadsheet also carries: a column chart whose columns "float" with their feet at various heights above the x-axis. It shows maxima, minima and differences in one illustration – took me a while to discover how to make it though!

'

My sister has thrown me at the family's tame IT consultant in the family – my neice's hubby! Confusers, or more accurately I think the 1s and 0s, are his trade. He's agreed to examine the technical details of what I have (I analysed it with Belarc), and the SEC and extended-TC system requirements (similar), and suggest my most appropriate course of action. He does not sell computers but probably will advise a new system but, importantly, to specifications to suit what I do and don't want. So I've e-posted the details to him.

Sister said don't ring him – he will be happy to help but "he'll blind you with science – he thinks you'll understand it as well as he does"!

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Well, one new-to-me (refurbished) high-woof PC with WIN-10 is now on its way to me….

My present PC wil be moved to reserve and off-line work, icluding TurboCAD, but I may well put SolidEdge (Community) on the new one and see how I manage with that.

I'm not yet sure what to do with the printers, as I don't know if it would be possible to print a TurboCAD .tcw drawing from a computer without TC loaded.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 08/01/2022 20:33:57:

…..to print a TurboCAD .tcw drawing from a computer without TC loaded.

You might have to export it from TC as a pdf to do that, or "print to pdf". But SECE may well be able to import such files. Or you might have to save or export them in something which is mutually compatible such as dxf. But I'm sure that Siemens wouldn't want to prevent a customer switching to SE just because they can't transfer their designs. If you sent such a file to someone with SE they could try it?

[Author]

Posts