Solid Edge Community Edn. – Gen. Qs. Thereof

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

Nigel:

The point I was making with the puzzle is that modern CAD systems can do it exactly with just 3 constraints – no calculations at all. You just draw the the 2 axes and the square, then a 35 unit long line and say the ends of the line must touch the axes and the line itself must touch the corner of the square – job done.

My rather ancient m/c is too old for Win11, but I personally don't see it has any advantages over Win10.

I reckon SE(C) would be perfect for you and yes, the file-types you mentioned are industry standard.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Gary Wooding on 29/12/2021 17:32:37:

Nigel:

The point I was making with the puzzle is that modern CAD systems can do it exactly with just 3 constraints – no calculations at all. You just draw the the 2 axes and the square, then a 35 unit long line and say the ends of the line must touch the axes and the line itself must touch the corner of the square – job done.

Your point should be that functionality is how the program is actually used to create objects: the computer tracks where things are, not you. All the user does is place a point where he wants it at the centre of a curve/tangent to another/where three edges meet/273.78454527mm above a face and at 34.68347° to it. That makes coordinates, dimensioned moves and all the other stuff carried over from paper utterly redundant.

Working this way makes the model stronger, as when you change a part all those carefully calculated and specified coordinates are no longer correct and weird stuff happens. Whereas when you told the computer to place a feature in the centre of another, the new feature always moves with it. That would be a good reason if it was the only one, but doing things this way frees up a lot of thought and work that can be applied to the design.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I guessed SolidEdge and the rest would solve that puzzle themselves! I didn't need to calculate anything to speak of, just to estimate the little nudges of the "ladder foot" along the axis.

(I'd typed 'reference point' there, then realised that has a specific meaning and purpose in TurboCAD.)

'

I read the Microsoft web-site carefully, and could not really determine any useful differences between 10 and 11. A good deal of the "up-grade" is probably for games & entertainments. It looks as if 11 also has more powerful camera facilities for video-conferencing etc., with a programme called "Teams". Apparently it even includes facial recognition so your computer knows you. Where's George Orwell when you need him?

It might also be allied to more powerful TPM security, but understanding even what that actually does is above my pension-grade! I'll leave that to the professional hackers studying how to turn it to their advantage.

'

Those file-types – thank you. I thought I'd seen them in literature referring to, among other things, CNC work and ordering laser-cut parts.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Think again about a low range new machine, those bits of hardware that make gaming machines work are also ideal for 3D CAD such as a decent amount of memory and good graphics card.

Look at the minimum requirements for whatever package you may update to and buy a machine that is spec'ed a bit higher than that. This is what Alibre needs, others will be similar but all are not really low range

Edited By JasonB on 29/12/2021 18:57:06

[GordonHParticipant @gordonh]

Nigel,

Ignoring Windows 10S, which I know nothing about, there are three versions of Windows 10; Home Edition, Professional Edition and Enterprise Edition. I successfully used Solid Edge C. E. 2021 on an eight year old Windows 10 Home Edition (64 bit) laptop with 8 GB RAM,

When I tried installing Solid Edge C, E, 2022, I found that this would only install on Windows 10 Professional Edition or Enterprise Edition, After I updated my laptop to Win 10 Professional Edition, Solid Edge C, E, 2022 successfully installed. The only issue I have is that the laptops graphics card cannot give full resolution on my plug and play 4K monitor. My next laptop will be a higher specification machine.

It may be worth viewing the Siemens website below to see their system requirements.

https://solidedge.siemens,com/en/resources/system-requirements/

This implies that a maintenance pack may be required to run Solid Edge C. E.2022 on Windows 11

Gordon

Edited By GordonH on 29/12/2021 20:20:20 to add text and correct spelling errors.

Edited By GordonH on 29/12/2021 20:21:58 grammar correction

Edited By GordonH on 29/12/2021 20:23:07 another grammar correction.

Edited By GordonH on 29/12/2021 20:24:16

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you.

Jason – A good point. I really don't know what graphics processing my present computer (a Dell 'Vostro' PC) has because I could find nothing on the system to tell me.

Gordon – I did wonder about that Windows Home / Professional. Usually 'Home' means a basic version; MS tells us 'Pro' here means additional tools primarily for business users.

My PC can be up-dated to WIN 10, from examining the facts and figures. That's not a problem, and I see it asks what you wish to keep (personal files and "apps" , just data or nowt ).

So what of CAD?

Firstly, Siemens tells us their products won't operate on W10 Home; so that's just over £200 for W10 Pro. There are non-MS sites saying you can load it for free but that seems a rigmarole and a gamble, including no support. Other suppliers seem to advertise MS product keys. Oh aye?

Examining SolidEdge's requirements, even its "Academic" users' version needs a massive 8GB RAM – twice my present PC's and over 4 times WIN-10's needs. It occupies nearly that on the hard disc, but there is plenty of room available there (370Gb free). It would also need a higher-resolution monitor.

TurboCAD 2021 Deluxe (the new edition of what I have, probably, with more stuff) for a 64-bit system needs much the same power and space, but its web-site does not tell me the screen and graphics requirements. probably safe to assume similar.

I cannot find the graphics driver specifications for my computer though, anyway. They are not given anywhere.

 

So to move to SE(C) or anything similar I'd need a new, WIN-10 computer and monitor! TC 2021 might work but would push my existing computer's limits and probably exceed those of its monitor.

It seems I should up-date the whole caboodle anyway irrespective of whatever CAD software I install; though that will be the heftiest programme I am likely to run.

That so, I reckon I'd best find an independant dealer – knowing his range may be a bit less than in the big chains but the service likely to more helpful – and see what would be best for me. It would also mean the thing would come with W10 all loaded. I'd have to install my existing, older MS and 3rd-party software including 'Office', and hope they work; but so far I have not found anything saying they won't.

MS 'Office' is already on my off-line, spare, PC anyway.

 

As for price, SE(C) is apparently free – SE is otherwise by costly subscription. The site is a bit ambiguous on that. Either it is free or it is not, but if it's sold I prefer an honest £x00 one-off.

TC 2021 Deluxe normally costs nearly £200 – quite reasonable really – as indeed does WIN-10; but can be purchased for under half that to up-grade an existing installation. That could be an option if I stay with a package that to be fair, I do have some experience in. My original TC 19 Deluxe is on a CD, so installing both in a new PC should be straightforward.

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 30/12/2021 00:42:43

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Nigel, for Win10 Professional – last time I looked you could purchase genuine licences on-line (licence code only) for less than GBP 20. There seems to be a few people in typical on-line marketplaces who specialise in these code only licences, but you do have to dig around to find them (price and availability vary widely).

Now that Win11 is available, a quick looks suggest Win10 licences are still available, but less common than they used to be.

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

My Win10 Home system is a very modest 7yr old 3.20Ghz Core i5-4460, 12GB RAM, 450GB SSD, and 1TB HDD, with GeForce GT 705 video card. It runs Fusion very well, and I've just downloaded, installed and run SE(C) 2022 with no problems.

It originally came with Win7 installed, which I upgraded to Win10 Home when it became available. I've had no problems with the upgrade and all my installed programs continued to run without problems. I see no advantages in upgrading to Win11, even if I could – it's doesn't meet minimum requirements.

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

Nigel

To echo Jason's comments, if you go for a low end machine you could be running into trouble as you get more proficient and model sizes increase. CAD systems are very memory hungry and need high end graphics cards and lots of RAM to run properly. My laptop is now 4 years old and has a quad core i7 processor and 8 Gb of ram. The graphics card is an INVIDIA GTX1050 Ti. I find this only just copes with the full 3D model of my Aspinall Class 27. I am considering changing my laptop as I have a damaged case, one screen hinge has broken and the battery is knackered and I will go for 16Gb ram this time and upgrade the graphics. I expect to pay at least £1K for a new machine to give me the power I need. I could probably get it cheaper using a tower system, but the laptop suits how I use the machine. I use a firm called Novatech for all my machines, they are a local independent manufacturer to me based in Porchester Hampshire.

In summary go for the most powerful system you can afford/are prepared to pay for.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 30/12/2021 00:39:13:

My original TC 19 Deluxe is on a CD, so installing both in a new PC should be straightforward.

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 30/12/2021 00:42:43

I wouldn't bank on any new PC having a CD reader. At least not built-in. My new(ish) HP all-in-one hasn't got one. It has, though, an SSD, high-capacity HD, enough memory and a decent graphics card as standard, coupled to a 24" screen. I purchased this new PC specifically for use with the Alibre 3D package. The rest of the programs that I use for photo manipulation, video editing, word processing etc, will work perfectly well on any old pedestrian machine. Just make sure that you can load them from a source other than CD if the new PC hasn't got one.

John

(I'm staying out of the "which is best" and "how to do it" tennis match!)

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Just to restate that I am happily running Solid Edge CE 2022 on a six year old laptop.

It has an Intel i5 CPU running at 2.2Ghz with 8Gb RAM. I am also running Windows 10 Home 21H1

It is normal for commercial software organisations to state the level of hardware & software that they support – which is often different to that which their software will actually run on. Having once worked for such a support organistion I know that if a customer phoned with a problem (and was not running the 'supported' level of hardware and software) they would have immediaty been told to 'update' as their first remedial step. This may not suit us 'hobby' users but it makes a good deal of sense where companies have binding 'level of service' contracts in place.

In the case of Siemens, their CAD systems can also be closely bound to Microsoft and other third party applications, which (for the reasons stated above) will be another reason why they will be telling their paying customers to stay current. I'm not trying to link my CAD to other MS apps (or enterpise solutions such as SAP) but many Siemens customers will be doing so as part of their intergrated manufacturing.

In summary, I have free access (for at least the next three years) to a premium CAD product that commercial customers pay about £2K pa for – and I'm very grateful to be able to do so. I'm also quite OK with upgradng my PC technology occassionaly to stay current. Win 10 is supported until late 2025 and my laptop will be about 10 years old by then (if it lasts that long) – not a bad investment for something I use daily.

BTW – Is anyone here still using WhatsApp on an old iPhone or Android? No, you've probably upgraded your mobile phone contract with a newer phone version. But in my case (just on Pay as You Go) I had to buy a new phone to retain WA (essential to my family communications). It seems OK when you have to update your mobile for the latest s/w, so why do folk think that PC's should be any different?

If someone wants to continue run on old PC hardware (& software) then it will very likely restrict their choice of available applications too. You pays your money (or not) and makes your choice.

Regards,

IanT

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

John –

I can transfer files from CD to a computer without CD drive, via a USB device and spare PC.

Dave, Ian –

You have highlighted the problem! My present PC will run WIN-10 but its RAM and monitor are not sufficient for the new editions of large-scale programmes like CAD.

I'd be better stumping up for a new PC and keeping this as an off-line spare.

My stumbling-block now? I can't find my CD holding a licensed MS 'Office' copy, for putting on the new computer! I am not sure if simply copying 'Word', 'Excel' and some other programmes, from their SSD reserves, would work.

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

Nigel: There is a very useful free program called Belarc Advisor. If you download and run it you will get a very comprehensive listing of your computer's hardware, as well as some useful info about your software licences, versions, and usage.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Gary –

Thank you for that!

I have just installed it – with a bit of faffing because I wasn't quite sure what was loading where.

It came up with a formidable list of despair – lots of Important and Critical up-dates not installed, and now not available of course.

One nugget that emerged though concerns the two places for Memory Modules I take to be the RAM, as the numbers tally. One is described as holding the 4069 Mb, 3968 Useable, presumably the 4.00GB RAM I'd gleaned from MS' own Control Panel tools.

The other slot is empty.

Might this mean that if I could obtain and plug in a second memory chip, it would make the total up to the ~8GB wanted?

If so, might it give a route to up-dating the system, including installing WIN-10, without having to replace the PC itself?

The modern CAD packages want a somewhat higher screen resolution than my monitor's, which is otherwise fine for everything I do; but would that matter, if I accept it may not show the maximum rendering standard the programme can provide?

[GordonHParticipant @gordonh]

Nigel,

I have bought memory modules from Crucial.com several times. A Google search will take you to their website, click on the flag then select UK. Scroll down to the bottom and click on "Find my Updates". This will download a scanner. Running the scanner will identify suitable memory modules and a solid state disk. You can buy whatever you wish. My 8 Gb module cost £49 and a 1 Tb SSD another £119. I bought the SSD to cure a long standing issue with the original hard disk. The SSD has transformed my machine, cold boot up up in seconds and no more lock ups while the hard disk load goes to 100% for ages.

Do you really need a new monitor? If you were happy with your TC display, I would expect SE to display in the same way. I frequently run SE on my laptop screen. The second monitor is nice to have, especially when you start assembling models but not essential.

It would seem that I may not have needed update to windows 10 Pro. However my laptop is much improved and it probably cost less than the cost TC and its training pack which I bought, only to find that I could not master TC.

 

Gordon 

Edited By GordonH on 31/12/2021 01:29:58

Edited By GordonH on 31/12/2021 01:32:45

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

Nigel: Yes, you can add another 4MB to make 8MB.

If you right-click anywhere on your desktop that is not an icon, then click Display settings it will show the current and maximum resolution of your monitor.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Gary Wooding on 31/12/2021 07:34:54:

Nigel: Yes, you can add another 4MB to make 8MB.

…

Whether it's worth doing is another question!

Some of Nigel's problems are likely explained by his machine only having 4Gb of RAM, others by his comment that Belarc 'came up with a formidable list of despair – lots of Important and Critical up-dates not installed, and now not available of course.'

I suspect running other system utilities would find the disc storage is fragmented, the Registry is full of dud entries, DLL and Driver clashes, a bunch of unnecessary services, perhaps some malware, and a that the CPU and GPU both max out when running CAD.

In my professional career, industry best practice was to replace laptops after 3 years (because they get bashed about), workstations after 5 years (apart from being slow, they become incompatible with new printers, networking, and applications, and the cost of maintaining them rises steeply.) Servers, which are mollycoddled in a comfy computer room, last 7 years. The best way to keep old computers going is to never change anything!

It's not worth Nigel upgrading his old computer if he intends trying SE(C) or anything else modern. The money is better spent on a new computer which will come with a much faster CPU and graphics, a clean disc and Registry, and compatible software.

If the memory is upgraded, best to buy 8Gb of the same type rather than mixing two different 4Gb modules. Mixed RAM is accesses at the fastest speed both modules support, which is likely to be sluggish.

While it often makes good sense to repair old mechanical kit, old computers are a good way of throwing good money after bad.

Dave

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

Nigel: Check the display resolution and report back with your Belarc numbers. This forum will then be more able to guide you for your next step, whether to upgrade or replace?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Dave –

I think you are right!

The computer is perfectly happy with TC 19 Deluxe because its abilities are well above what is asked for in the programme's handbook. It would not take the new version though (2021 Deluxe).

19 Deluxe was written for XP and 1Gb processor and would probably run on my former, XP-laden, works machine.

Gary –

I don't know the graphics-processor specifications. Belarc simply says " Intel(R) HD Graphis [Display Adaptor] " and telling me the monitor's make, size and serial number.

The monitor is rated at 1440 X 900 resolution.

I don't know but guess it would not do more powerful rendering full justice, and would tend to make low-anggle diagonal lines more pixellated than sometimes happens now.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Have just abandoned another attempt at 3D drawing in TurboCAD.

Are other packages simpler?

The cylinder-block for my waggon's vertical compound engine, copying from the 2D elevations. I also converted it to close round-number mm dimensions for simpler drawing.

1) The bounding rectangle (the whole thing is a cuboid of stock cast-iron bar).

2) Circles for the cylinders, with small ones round them for the cover stud-holes (5 alone for each, plus central shared one),.

3) Extrude all 14, making the "holes" slightly over-height. Stick a little sphere to the block's front lowest corner as a landmark when twiddling the thing from view to view.

4) Work out the height move and laboriously copy all 11 stud holes to the top surface, protruding fractionally. (Ignore symbolising the threads.) Drop the lower holes and over-length cylinders similarly. The protrusions allow the the next stage…

5 …. Subtract all 24 "holes" to make holes. If left flush they tend to stay hidden under the surface.

Now then…. That's a big lump of cast iron, so rectangular recesses in the sides to lighten it a bit. Leave the corner radii to the slot-drill, and anyway the recess starts life on the drawing as…

6 … a "Box" library figure, so naturally has sharp corners.

7. Assemble the box-to-be-recess to the block by top edge-to-edge mid-points. It's now face-to-face, centrally by length.

8 Centralise it vertically by sliding it down by [ (block height – recess height) / 2 ].

9. Slide the box into the block by the appropriate axis-move, leaving a tiny protrusion.

10. Subtract box from block to create the recess.

11. Turn the lot round and repeat Steps 6 – 10.

Fine so far. The basic rendering even makes it look like a part-made cylinder block. Next the ports.

11. These need something like the above, complicated by being a "thick" box flanked by two thin ones to be placed on their respective port-faces, centralising across, setting to heights, sinking in and subtracting. More sums.

I had to abandon it with the 6 boxes floating vaguely in or around the block, but I could not move them to their correct places.

I realised that even if I solved that, I have no idea at all how to draw inclined passages in a 3D model, but I want the design to suit the real engine not a CAD exercise. Four 4 drilled ones per port, in pairs flanking the cover stud. (I think I found that configuration in one of Luker's designs.)

The PC still needs up-dating to WIN-10, but if other CAD packages are as difficult in 3D I may as well keep my TC 19 Deluxe and use only its orthographic mode.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Pictures would help……

 

But the stud holes would be created directly onto the required surface, just like you would physically drill them. And you only need one, created using a hole command that controls the diameter, depth, thread size, and even the drill point you expect. Then it's another editable command to add however many you need around the circle.

 

And I have no idea why you're creating and moving a box around that isn't even the shape you want.

 

Once again, you need to stop thinking combined drawing elevations, and start thinking 3D object because that's what you actually want.

 

Something like this, a sketch that's one rectangle, two equal circles, two extra construction lines, and a symmetry constraint extruded to a solid:

 

 

Add an M5 hole 6mm deep

and a pattern of 7(because that's a horrible thing to calculate) around the bore:

 

So that's one simple sketch, an extrude, one feature(the hole) and a pattern. Any of those four operations can be changed, so you could make the thread imperial, a more reasonable pattern of 6 holes or the block 87.65748380mm long instead of the 75 I chose. Relieving the edges between the bores would be drawn on the face to the required shape, and extruded through the block to cut them out. That could be done on the original sketch, but would make it a bit busy. You would round the four outer edges of the block with one fillet operation that gives full control of the radius applied.

This is far simpler and easier to do than your painful description. Alibre or Solidedge wouldn't be much different.

Edited By Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 01/01/2022 01:10:51

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Regarding putting the small hole son the other end, I just click "mirror" and select the axis to mirror them in and they all appear on the opposite side.

As for dragging a rectangle about to centralise I just click the symmetric icon and then axis and two opposite sides of the rectangle and it will then move to a symmetric position.

As to whether one is easier to learn than another really comes down to the individual and for your posts over the last couple of years I fear any package will be difficult for you.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I know you are not keen on videos but here is what I think you are describing. You will see I use the circular pattern and mirror a lot as there is little point in drawing things more than once. You mat want to watch direct on youtube and slow the screen speed down as I did not do it slowly for demo purposes

I learnt from watching a few videos and that seems to be the way most people do it, as you say you can't that will be a stumbling block no matter which direction you go in.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Nigel, from your description, it seems that using Boolean operations in TC to cut material away (rather than using cut operations) is a complication you could do without. I don't know what tools are available in TC, but others may be able to help with that.

One thing I would comment, having seen Jason's video, there is no single correct way to model anything. For example Jason uses patterns in his sketches a lot. If I were doing the same task, I would usually create (for example) one hole, then pattern the hole (that is the 3D feature) rather than pattern in the sketch. There are pros and cons to each – both produce the same result.

Ideally it would be great if experienced users of TC and SE would show you live how to produce something like your engine block. That would give you an idea of if one really is easier to use/learn than the other, or whether they are equally complex form your perspective. The exercise could include things like angled drillings, and you could ask questions throughout. As that would be a viewing exercise, your current PC should be able to cope (a headset or microphone & speakers would help enormously).

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi Jason

Great video you made there which shows the Mirror function to it's best, certainly a time saving command.
Also the use of Planes is clearly defined demonstrating placement of Sketch to extrude.
Something I gained from the video is that you Extruded the original Sketch with a centre plane which is an advantage if you want to Mirror features from the opposite end of the model.

You are correct to suggest viewing at a slower speed, especially for viewing the function icon selection,
I also use a version of Alibre but a good deal older so Tools layout differs and I certainly can't draw as quickly as you did in the video.

With some audio description of the operation added it would be as good as teaching videos from Alibre, could I suggest you add something like Sketching and Extruding in Alibre to the video title, good learning aid to new Alibre users.

Emgee

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