solid edge community edition woes

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

I have been encouraged by members to look at SE CE and went through the process to instal this humungous bloatware (4GB and 20 modules). It took all evening.

It didnt send me a Free use licence key, so I had to sign in to the 2D drafter

Is that all I get for this sweat? As a noob here I must have got it wrong. I thought it gave you access to the full 3D features?

Can anyone shed any light?

Or have I been click baited?

It asked me to sign in with email, then asked me for pw but during registration it never asked for this so this will fail

I sent an email forgot pw – it said we sent you an email – never recieved

This is giving me a bad feeling – Big corp contempt for the little guy. Not what I expected from siemens

 

I hope its my mistake

Brian

more fretting. I discovered through the convoluted installation that I had to activate the installer again and it obtained the licence number given during the 2d app and I now have a 3D version I think

What planet are these people on?

 

BTW SE CE 2021 only wants to work with W10 enterprise pro, NOT Home edition so whether it will fall over on my W8.1?

I hope some member will come forward and show me all this grief is worthwhile

Talking about bloatware, Adobe is famous for it.  eg Photoshop has ca 20GB associated with its creative suite.  I have a version of PS CS3 which fits on my thumb drive – is portable and uses 3MB.  for 99% of my use I dont notice the difference – that says it all.  I thinks its been with me 15 years

Edited By brian jones 11 on 07/09/2021 01:46:19

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

what have i done wrong

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Might want to add that to your spread sheet – what operating system and how much RAM is required. These 3D programs need a good graphics card and a reasonably powerful computer.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

No, I never had any of those problems Brian – however I'm guessing you may have loaded an earlier '2D' offer which still appears on part of the Siemens site – which is effectively obsolete (because 2D is part of the SE-CE Edition).

It was a while ago now but from what I recall I just filled in my registration details on the SE-CE download page and that was it – a full 3D product which self installed on my Win 10 Home laptop.

Did you use this link? – which is the correct one we've given here before.

Solid Edge Community Edition

The download is large (mine was about 6GB) but I guess the alternative is Cloud based software (which I'm not keen on). Comparing older software 'size' to products like SE doesn't make too much sense if you are also comparing the functionality a commercial CAD system offers compared to older/hobbyist CAD systems. Given I still have 770Gb free on my hard disc – it hasn't made that much a dent on storage. I have an i5 with 8Gb RAM on a 5 year old laptop and it's performance is just fine with my current SE designs.

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 07/09/2021 09:40:08

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Indeed JB users should be aware of their OS and know that CAD requires a capable m/c. PC requirements are usually well documented on sites up front so the user should know enough to check. MY SS is intended as a helper for those reasonably PC savvy, and also a means of gathering collective wisdom on which CAD for the hobbyists.

After all you should have at least a basic experience of conventional 2D eng drafting – this is a forum for machinists wishing to design

The other route to 3D from visual arts is not my bag (and as with Sketchup will lead to other problems)

Clearly I dont wish to compare commercial product with the hobby needs. As will be seen these are totally over endowed with 95% of features that a home sketcher will never use.

The overriding concern is ease of use leaving you energy for design work rather than battling with the learning curve

We dont want a Ferrari to potter around town when a mini will do.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

"We don't want a Ferrari to potter around town when a mini will do."

Well Brian, I used TurboCAD D/L (2D) for over 20 years and it did have a 3D capability but frankly it was very hard to use. There was a 'Pro' version which was quite significantly more expensive but the base products were similar I believe. However, it worked OK for much of my 2D drawing for many years.

So why move to Solid Edge? Well, I started to draw/design more complex things (such as my Midland Compound engine) and it became increasingly difficult to do so using a (non-parametric) 2D product. Going back to correct errors or make changes becomes very time consuming. I also purchased a 3D Printer and whilst Open SCAD was easy to get into initially, it wasn't a solution for my drawing needs.

With Solid Edge, I can update a Part and everything in the Assemblies above changes. I can open the (2D) drawings I've made of that part or assembly and hit the 'Update' icon and all the drawings are updated automatically. It works for both my 3D Print & engineering needs.

I've not used other versions of 3D CAD but I understand that many only use what is called 'Ordered' drawing, which effectively means that you have to step back (to the point you wish to change) to make that change. Solid Edge does support 'Ordered' but I tend to use 'Synchronous' drawing. If I want to change something, then I just do so, no stepping back. As this YT explains, there may be times when you need to use both 'Ordered' and 'Synchronous' but I've not had to do so yet.

Solid Edge – Synchronous & Ordered

So to my mind this isn't Ferrari versus Mini – it's like asking if I want to go back to driving my old Morris Minor (with no heater, radio, sat nav, auto gearbox, performance) versus my current car. Of course, I used to be able to service that Morris Minor myself and could also do any roadside repairs required (fortunately) but that doesn't mean I want to go back to driving one today.

I will probably never use most of the functionality of Solid Edge but I'm already certain that I very much like the SE features I am already using and I wouldn't want to go back to anything less.

Regards,

IanT

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Many thnx for your i/p exactly what we need for our knowledge base – will be added

My concern is the comparison with Solidworks which seems to be an industry std and I dont propose to dwell on it as its way out of the hobby league BUT

take a young wannabe starting out, would he not be better pursuing the market leader? although both products have super hype claims. Of course SE offers a free way to get on board and I think SW is more difficult and costly, but I think some unis provide a certificated module

I just looked at employment agencies and SW came up a lot, no mention at all of SE

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Solid Works versus Solid Edge as a career choice?

If this was a Forum for young 'Makers' Brian – I might agree with you but I suspect that a very large proportion of those here are either well into their existing career choice or some way into their retirement. I will admit to being in the later camp and I had assumed that this discussion (started on the other thread) was about the best available 'Hobbyists' 3D CAD?

Now everyone has different needs, different budgets and different personal preferences (often formed from past experiences).

Solid Edge is only available on the Windows platform, so will not suit Apple & Linux devotees.

It probably will not run (it's certainly not supported) on Windows 8.1 (and below) and I would guess that you need a reasonably powerful processor and some memory to make it run well.

It does not a have a CAM element (which FreeCAD and F360 both do) – so it may not appeal to some CNC users.

The boxes it does tick however are;

– A free lifetime license for a CAD system that runs (& stores) your intellectual property locally (No Cloud)

– A commercial strength 3D parametric CAD system, that also support 2D drafting, with no serious or practical limitations on it's features and use. The software seems to be robust and glitch free (as one would expect from a large organisation such as Siemens)

– It supports a wide range of Industry standard file formats including STL, STEP, PDF, JPEG, BMP, TIFF, DWG, DXF, VRML and many more. It can also has a 3D direct print capability (I'm still using CURA but will try this eventually)

– It's general capabilities include automated drafting, exploded view creation, animation, advanced rendering and simulation but it also includes specialist drawing modules for Sheetmetal & Weldment design that I suspect some here would find very useful too.

– Included in the SE-CE download are some very good 'get-you-going' eLearning modules, which I found very helpful. They are not simulations, you use SE itself to draw the exercises with step-by-step guidance.

I could rattle on but I think that's probably enough.

There could be many reasons folk here might not like or want to use Solid Edge (although I doubt future career opportunities is one of them) and there are clearly other alternatives. However, for anyone wanting a modern parametric 3D (or 2D) CAD system that runs locally (e.g. No cloud) that's free to download – then I think Solid Edge Community Edition is a very serious candidate.

Regards,

IanT

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Many thanx Ian very valuable insight here, will process

Indeed most mews are in or approaching their dotage i guess

I only mentioned that younger members need to keep eyes on the prize and back a popular industry horse.

We cheap charlies will not be commercial or gainful but the possibilities of 3D CAD are just too good to ignore

This post aims to demystify CAD apps for the noob cos the choice out there is massively hyped and bewildering (then so in 3d printing and CNC

I still cant get my head around Covid bits for tools

All this new tech which 5-10 years ago cost mega bucks is now within the reach of the home hobbyist

Just look at the galleries for some of the work examples from real amateurs – though you need to rule out the pros and the "look how clever I am self promoters" who try to dominate the scene

Does anyone know a site for genuine amateur stuff? JB has shown what he can do with Atom3D

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No I have shown what I can do with Alibre (pro) though 95% of that could also be done with Atom3D. Some of my older images would have been from the hobby version of Alibre before Atom came out rather than pro.

A look back at some of the threads when MEW ran the series onAton3D will show you what some here have managed to do with it.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

The software seems to be robust and glitch free (as one would expect from a large organisation such as Siemens)

ROTFLMAO

That was not my experience with some of their other products – but I won't be saying anything more on a public forum.

Hence Freecad for me rather than SE – with an equally steep (maybe steeper) learning curve. Some useful tutors for Freecad on Youtube that helped me get started & just in the process of upgrading my computer (i7, 16Gb ram, SSD, Win 10 Pro) to do more with it.

Sadly there don't appear to be any shortcuts to mastering 3D Cad & it does appear to require decent hardware.

Nigel B.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Well I'm sorry you found yourself rolling about on the floor Nigel – but I can only speak to Solid Edge (the Siemens product I'm actually using) and I've not had any issues – of course that's only after a year of use and I'm very likely not really pushing the boundaries yet. But I've had no obvious problems with SE.

However, I did look into using FreeCAD (before choosing SE) partly because it had a CAM (e.g. Path) facility. However, I'm afraid it was FreeCAD I had in mind when I mentioned that SE was "glltch free" – because I don't think that FC is, at least not yet.

Everything I read basically said that whilst FreeCAD was improving it was still not quite there – "not viable for commercial use" was one quote I saw. There are certainly well documented issues that I simply didn't want to wrestle with (some of which reminded me of problems I'd had when trying out TurboCAD 3D). For example, the one discussed here;

FreeCAD is Fundamentally Broken

Regards,

 

IanT

Edited By IanT on 07/09/2021 20:45:54

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Several companies will tell you their CAD product is 'Industry Standard' – whatever that is supposed to mean. It is marketing people that pen such meaningless statements.

Take it all with 'a pinch of salt', and just worry about if the particular package does what you need it to do.

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Yes DJ you are plastered with all their )(**(&*&*)(* hype

it wastes loadsa time wading thru it to get to the meat.

Hence my posts on the subject here

I am up and running with SE CE and it seems a very capable package and its FREE

I am also trying to get to the fundamentals of 3D cadding which seem largely glossed over

The industry wants you befuddled with blurb

of course all this is directed toward the home hobby guy

Younguns will go on professional training courses

I note the comments on industry trends that say that CAD packages and CAM packages are being split up by industry demand so that large corp can no longer hold the mfg's nuts in a vice. Also sme's can use the new tech without large up front costs demanded by the big corps

I dont propose to go into CAM apps cos thats way out of my league but perhaps some else skilled in the arts could pursue a similar intitiative as i am trying to do with 3D CAD

Brian

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

I've been using Fusion 360 for a while and Alibre before that. However SE also claims to be free so I thought I'd try it.

The download took several attempts.

On starting the program my first reaction was that it's reinstalled Windows 95! It looks and feels, old. That's not necessarily bad, but there's so many tiny, blocky icons on the screen I've got to read the help file just to figure out how to apply the extrude command to my sketched rectangle. And how to dimension the other edge.

But I didn't expect it to work in exactly the same way, so will get a cold beer and try it properly rather than just moaning in disgust.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Nicholas, my advice would be not to just try and jump into any 3D CAD package – and there is a lot of help available to get you started with Solid Edge !

So before you try anything else, click the 'SE' icon (top L/H corner) and then the first option on the list – 'Learn'

You will then see things like quick reference guides – but I'd suggest you try the 'Recommended Learning Paths' and select the one which seems most appropriate to your existing skills. I has some 2D experience but selected 'New to CAD'. This will take you through a structured learning process, which includes some very good e-Learning.

Within a few evenings I was drawing 3D Micrometers with animated moving parts. Didn't make me an instant expert but it did give me some confidence and an appreciation of what was possible with SE.

You probably wouldn't jump into a car and try driving off without some lessons – I'm afraid 3D CAD is the same.

Regards,

IanT

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Indeed you need to get familiar with a different way of using mouse,ctl alt shft and spc bar

I cant just click on a solid or a face and move it for example

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Ian,

that was my plan. It was how I started with Fusion, which I've recently been using for a virtual mockup for my upcoming hotrod chassis:

All I did was start the program and click a few buttons. Just like sitting in a car in a showroom and making broom broom noises. But to continue the analogy, the new car felt like a mk2 Escort.

What doesn't help is the use of deliberately flashy techy-sounding language right from the start without any real definitions – do I want my new model to be synchronous or ordered? How would I know? They all seem to use different terms for the same approach, which further obfuscates things.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Nicholas,

When you first install Solid Edge, it does ask you what kind of UI you would like – I went for the default "Balanced" rather than the simpler get-you-going themes. Likewise, 'Synchronous' is the default methodology in SE. There are real differences between the two – the key thing being that you can switch to either. Have a look at this (2003) article about the differences between the two…

Ordered vs Synchronous – Solid Edge

These are the key advantages (pro's) of Synchronous Tech in SE as cited by the Author:

• Rapid, flexible design tools.
• The designer does not have to predict how the model will change in the future.
• A history-free approach allows for instantaneous model changes while editing the model.
• The sketch does not drive the model. The dimensions are migrated to the model and directly drive the model at the 3D level.
• Rapid edit tools and handles allow the designer to edit the model without having to understand how it was originally modelled.
• Designers can edit a part file or group of parts from the assembly level, without having to edit into each part.
• They can also edit models from any CAD system as easily as editing Solid Edge models.
• Model can be constrained at the 3D level, but it’s not really necessary.
• Models are lighter and, therefore, open and save faster than in the ordered paradigm.
• Legacy ordered models can be converted to synchronous models.
• Although a different approach to modelling, it shares many similarities with the ordered paradigm. Thus, it’s easier to learn for existing Solid Edge users.

There are instances where 'Ordered' is required but I'm a long way off 'lofts' and any such like in my work…so Synch is what I use.

Regards,

IanT

PS – Going back to this link earlier – I spotted the "Immersive Reader" option in my Browser – so clicked it. Wonderful, it gets rid of all the carp – will get used a lot in future. 

Edited By IanT on 10/09/2021 13:52:39

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Just thinking about "3D CAD is too hard" – "Very high barriers to Entry" etc…

Well, like anything else it needs to be taken in small steps. I did the e-learning tutorials provided with SE Community and then started looking at YouTube (as you do – at least I do).

As usual, this varied vastly in content and quality. Some YTs were very poor or rushed through the material at a rate of knots. Some covered material that was way above my head (or needs) and far too advanced. Then I found Dr Mohamed Seif. He lectures in Engineering at a University in Alabama and I suspect the material was originally prepared for his students. Couple of caveats – he's not a CAD Professional, he's a University lecturer – so I'm sure the CAD Pro's will find fault in some of his methods but it suits me very well.

His pace is right for me, he has a clear structure to his material, starting with the simple basics and progressing to more complex subjects. I have found his videos very helpful (I've gone back and watched some several times over). I also kind of like the fact that he makes the odd mistake – which I found somewhat reassuring…

Here's his Introduction to Solid Edge video…

Introduction to Solid Edge – Dr Mohamed Seif

Regards,

IanT

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Further to Ian valuable input

Immersive Reader?????????????????????

What he means is

Firefox Browser top left/View/Enter Reader F9

I never knew that its brill.

The above article (too big for here) deserves tobe read in full IMHO

Edited By brian jones 11 on 10/09/2021 16:05:52

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Now here's a question

premise

I believe that SE can accurately position a vertex of the intersection 2 arcs (or circles)

but circles are displayed default as 36 segments – can go to 96 under View options

When you zoom in you see the intersection of two segments but they dont form a vertex. You have to use the Trim tool which seems to provide the required accurate vertex AFAIK

2D we take this for granted drawing a radius to get an intersect

OK so far?

Now the interesting bit comes when you intersect 3 spheres to get an accurate radial point and line in space draw from the origin say.

Can SE do this?

You need this for example when you want to rotate faces or solids to an intersection

I havent got as far as making a sphere yet – not ready for a revolution

still sharpening my clutch pencil

For example try a simple tetrahedron

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by brian jones 11 on 10/09/2021 18:28:48:

…

I believe that SE can accurately position a vertex of the intersection 2 arcs (or circles)

but circles are displayed default as 36 segments – can go to 96 under View options

When you zoom in you see the intersection of two segments but they dont form a vertex. You have to use the Trim tool which seems to provide the required accurate vertex AFAIK

2D we take this for granted drawing a radius to get an intersect

OK so far?

Now the interesting bit comes when you intersect 3 spheres to get an accurate radial point and line in space draw from the origin say.

…

For example try a simple tetrahedron

I don't understand 'intersect 3 spheres to get an accurate radial point and line in space draw from the origin say.' A drawing would help!

Don't know SE, but computer software typically separates the definition of graphical objects from display. What's shown on screen is only a loose representation of the definition. Behind the scenes the definition is as accurate as the machine's number base, i.e. near perfect, but the display is limited by the resolution of the media. This varies: screen, printer, plotter, or hologram – all different.

As CAD models can be made of thousands of graphical objects, programmers code for performance: they avoid the machine doing work whenever possible. SE probably represents screen circles as segments because that's the fastest way to draw them: rather than waste time calculating perfect circles, it whacks out a 'good enough' imitation, a series of lines at a fixed angle. However this is just for display and the software uses definitions, not what's shown on screen, to calculate intercepts and other geometry.

Manual 2D technical drawing often uses arcs drawn with a compass to fix mid-points and find intercepts etc. The draughtsman sets the radius, sharpens his pencils, and eyeballs the result. Mechanical methods aren't available to computers, so they use purely mathematical methods. This is one of the booby traps a 2D draughtsman converting to 3D might fall into: he's discombobulated because the computer absolutely doesn't work as he expects it too. Or wastes time setting drawings up manually from first principles, when the computer has a toolbar full of Wizards!

This tetrahedron is produced with a single click on a tool in FreeCAD's "Pyramids and Polyhedrons" Workbench.

Or I could have created a tetrahedron in the "Parts Design" workbench, which is best for most mechanical modelling, by sketching a triangle and lofting it to a point. Both methods, and there may be more, require the operator to learn the CAD tool. I know the loft method works in Fusion360, and would bet money SE supports it too, but I don't know if F360 and SE have a Tetrahedron button. It's not unlikely.

Dave

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Dave,

those 2d draftsmen are the ones who also insist on placing features using coordinates instead of 'offset it 7microns from this bit'. Making things difficult for themselves in the process. That's before the part changes as part of the design.

One thing that puzzles me is that anyone who is used to 2d drawing using plans ought to be able to pick out profiles for 3d base features really easily, but actually seem to struggle.

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

F360 can do rectangular box, sphere, cylinder, torus, coil, and pipe. No tetrahedron.

[Author]

Posts