Soldering Electrical Connections to NASA standard

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

A reference for improving our soldering techniques.

NASA Technical Standard: Soldered Electrical Connections

**LINK**

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Nice find, Paul

MichaelG.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I couldn't find the words 'cost' 'price' or 'dollar' anywhere in that document

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ady1 on 22/04/2021 08:24:31:

I couldn't find the words 'cost' 'price' or 'dollar' anywhere in that document

.

It’s about the pursuit of perfection

… other documents are available if you are obsessed by those three words.

MichaelG.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

The Mars probe is estimated to cost more than $2.7 billion. Would you choose a cheaper option for making electrical components and have something fail ?

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Interesting that this albeit somewhat dated counsel of perfection relates exclusively to (as far as a quick skim through reveals) tin-lead solder. None of this troublesome lead-free stuff!

[edit: typos, typos and more tpyos!]

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 22/04/2021 10:15:01

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by Kiwi Bloke on 22/04/2021 10:13:16:

Interesting that this albeit somewhat dated counsel of perfection relates exclusively to (as far as a quick skim through reveals) tin-lead solder. None of this troublesome lead-free stuff!

[edit: typos, typos and more tpyos!]

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 22/04/2021 10:15:01

RoHS doesn't apply to them, probably with good reason, although they are still stuck with the problems of lead-free solder on commercial components. Nasa Tin Whisker Homepage

Brian G

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/04/2021 08:50:20:

Posted by Ady1 on 22/04/2021 08:24:31:

I couldn't find the words 'cost' 'price' or 'dollar' anywhere in that document

.It’s about the pursuit of perfection

… other documents are available if you are obsessed by those three words. MichaelG.

If you've worked for the Americans you know they produce bull***t like this all the time but never comply with it.

[Alan Johnson 7Participant @alanjohnson7]

In the 70's, when I was training, we were taught to solder to probably the same standard by our lecturer (a RADAR tecnician in WWII) who had trained in the USA when he was working at one of the satelite tracking stations here (pre Moon landing times). We were allowed 30 minutes for each joint!

He said that the Americans were "VERY DARK" when they missed a satelite coming over the horizon and failed to download the data it was sending. Apparently the memory on the satelites was very small, and a missed opertunity to receive it meant it was lost forever.

Yes, the solder had lead in it. I believe that even today aviation electronics must be lead solder as it is reliable.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Posted by Anthony Kendall on 22/04/2021 11:10:57:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/04/2021 08:50:20:

Posted by Ady1 on 22/04/2021 08:24:31:

I couldn't find the words 'cost' 'price' or 'dollar' anywhere in that document

.It’s about the pursuit of perfection

… other documents are available if you are obsessed by those three words. MichaelG.

If you've worked for the Americans you know they produce bull***t like this all the time but never comply with it.

I worked for Boeing, and yes we did.

[A SmithParticipant @asmith78105]

"If you've worked for the Americans you know they produce bull***t like this all the time but never comply with it."

I'm expect that that all the stuff that Voyager, Hubble etc are supposed to have sent back are just spoofy inventions, probably concocted by Disney.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

In the nineties I was a trained assessor for the then British Standard for Quality Assurance.

Thinking about the friendly, but rough and ready back street garage I used then – they probably told anyone who complained to '**** off or we'll set the Alsatian on you'

If they only did that consistently and wrote it down as a procedure they could use it in QA certification!

[Anonymous]

Posted by Anthony Kendall on 22/04/2021 11:10:57:

If you've worked for the Americans you know they produce bull***t like this all the time but never comply with it.

 

Can't speak for today but I worked, as a Mechanical Engineer, on a number of NASA programs in the 60's and 70's and companies absolutely did comply with the soldering spec.

Moreover, it wasn't sufficient simply to comply with the spec. The solderer himself had to be certified, which meant a week or so training at the NASA soldering school and successful passing of their tests. The earlier version of this spec (NHB 5300) was an absolute "watchword" at the time …. that document number was known by all. It was a Big Thing. Somewhere I have a copy if the gremlins didn't get it.

Other industries/companies may (or may not) be lax, but the space business certainly wasn't one of them.

Edited By Peter Greene on 22/04/2021 16:08:03

[Anonymous]

Posted by Ady1 on 22/04/2021 08:24:31:

I couldn't find the words 'cost' 'price' or 'dollar' anywhere in that document

 

That, and a million other technical documents. I find it curious that you would expect to.

You should get out more.

Edited By Peter Greene on 22/04/2021 16:25:12

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Perhaps I'm out of touch, but isn't lead free solder only mandated for potable water supplies? I'm still buying and using tin/lead solder for electronics. If so, then boilers for model engines should be fine with tin/lead solder (Where silver brazing isn't mandated).

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

The EU mandate that all electrical equipment must be assembled using lead free solder has probably done wonders for the sale of replacement electrical goods, how many circuit boards have failed because of the growth of tin whiskers causing shorts and failing joints, we are currently on our third Sky Q box due to failures. Perhaps now that the UK is separated from Europe we can see some common sense taking hold and where necessary we can use leaded solder, I acknowledge aviation equipment has always had an exception, there seems to be an obsession in the EU about lead and its dangers, shotgun use of lead ammunition is one of their pet hates. I remember as a youngster when eating rabbit we were told to spit out the black bits as they were shotgun pellets, how many of use in our seventies and eighties are afflicted with lead poisoning! Sorry to go off topic but I feel strongly that the EU regulations were excessively overprotective and detrimental to electrical product life. Dave W

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Samsaranda on 22/04/2021 17:27:30:

… how many of use in our seventies and eighties are afflicted with lead poisoning! Sorry to go off topic but I feel strongly that the EU regulations were excessively overprotective and detrimental to electrical product life. Dave W

Good question about lead poisoning, do you have any of the following symptoms:

• High blood pressure
• Joint and muscle pain
• Difficulties with memory or concentration
• Headache
• Abdominal pain
• Mood disorders
• Reduced sperm count.

Lead shotgun pellets and fishing weights are a problem for birds because many species collect grit in their crops, which is bad for them and anyone who eats their flesh. This type of lead pollution is almost permanent because lead released by dead wild birds returns directly into their food chain.

Lead in solder ends up in ground water after leaching from ground fill. This also is a long term problem. Should pregnant women be asked to risk lead poisoning just because Sky Boxes don't last? And is lead-free solder the cause of skyBox failures anyway? I'm inclined and equipped to have a go at fixing electronics if it's worthwhile, and have never found a tin solder whisker failure,though I'm sure it's possible. I find failed mechanical switches and capacitors, corrosion due to batteries & condensation, resistors that have wandered off value due to overheating, poor plug/socket connections and dirt across tracks. Dry joints of course, but I'd say they're less common than 40 years ago, mainly because soldering machines do a better job than wobbly people waving traditional soldering irons.

Does leaving the EU mean UK solder in ordinary domestic appliances can contain lead again? Unlikely. Public health problems mean UK policy is unlikely to alter. It's not really an EU issue either: Brussels can't be blamed for the USA's similar Lead reduction measures, read all about them here.

Dave

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Samsaranda on 22/04/2021 17:27:30:

………………

Sorry to go off topic but I feel strongly that the EU regulations were excessively overprotective and detrimental to electrical product life. Dave W

I'd suggest that the lead problem being addressed by the EU legislation is not about the use of lead in the production and use of the item, but more about the mining/processing of the lead ore, and the recycling of the product at the end of its life.
The EU might have been one of the first to introduce relevant legislation, but it has been followed by a number of other countries now.

This link has some useful info; note particularly the bit about the Basel convention, which is a UN, rather than EU creation
https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0707/ogunseitan-0707.html

Bill

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

As for the ROHS lead free solder, I have been out of the IT hardware game for over 10 years, but went through the pain of its introduction. The vast majority of the kit we sold ended up getting exemptions as it was intended for data centre use which could be supporting business critical applications. The long term reliability of lead free solder had not yet been proven. Not sure how that has changed recently.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Many years ago I went through the wiring training shop at Marconi in Chelmsford. I remember little about it now, except making a wiring harness with correctly tied and spaced wrappings, and the two little pots of molten solder on the shelf in front of me. They were to wash the gold plate off (particularly) the leads on transistors. Apparently the gold dissolves in solder and if left in the joint, can lead to unreliability later. Not good if you were making PCBs for the sharp end of guided missiles… Two pots of solder – the first removed the bulk of the gold, the second washed off gold-containing solder from the first. Every so often, someone came round, made pot 2 into pot 1, and took the old pot 1 away for recovering the gold!

I'm probably full of lead anyway – brought up in East London and only drank water fed via lead pipes. Mind you, the lime deposits in those old pipes meant low flow rates but at least kept the water away from the lead.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Cripes!

It's easy to mock, but the Voyager probes are still returning data after over 43 years, which says it all really.

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

So much doom and gloom is attributed to the use of lead in its various guises and I have yet to see scientific evidence to support these assertions. How many deaths in wildlife and humans have a direct and proven link to lead ingestion or poisoning.

Robert Butler

Edited By Robert Butler on 23/04/2021 22:25:41

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Things have gone full circle.

I thought that the latest mars rover was using some off the shelf cameras in it.

I may be wrong in this though.

David.

[Martyn BallParticipant @martynball23274]

no, believe its the junction breakdown connections in the transistors, 150c max. not beyond solder melt down

[Author]

Posts