SMETS 2

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It’s the middle of the night, I’m tired and can’t get to sleep.

So … as I have been cajoled into having a SmartMeter fitted [electricity only] on 25-January, I thought I would try to understand how they communicate with the WAN

For background info.

I live in a cell-phone NotSpot, in North Wales.

This is the best documentation that I have found so-far:

https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2.html

… from which it appears that great reliance is being placed upon the [soon to be withdrawn] 2G/3G network !

I know we have some clever Telecoms people on this forum … So could someone please explain ?

Thanks

MichaelG.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/does-a-smart-meter-need-wi-fi/#:~:text=For%20those%20interested%20in%20the,range%20radio%20provided%20by%20Arqiva.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Yes, thank you John … i had read that before I posted

If you look at the little map in my link, you will see that North Wales is in “the South”  and therefore doesn’t benefit from the Arqiva coverage.

Please feel free to correct me

MichaelG.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Aha!  Last time I heard, the plan was to keep a small sliver of 900MHz GSM spectrum lit up with 2G to support legacy devices such as Smart Meters.  For the future there are options in 4G and 5G to support this type of application but of course that would mean replacing the meters.  The smart meter rollout is a typical UK kluge forced on us through industrial fragmentation.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

You seem to be a restless soul with an active brain Michael, have you ever thought of giving CAD a shot?

Plenty of stuff to keep you going forever, plus your outputs would be valued for years afterwards

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

Here Michael this might help explain

Alan

[Ady1]

On Ady1 Said:

You seem to be a restless soul with an active brain Michael, have you ever thought of giving CAD a shot?

Plenty of stuff to keep you going forever, plus your outputs would be valued for years afterwards

What a strange reply

I was using Autocad when it came on 13 floppy disks and ran under DOS

MichaelG.

[Alan Jackson]

On Alan Jackson Said:

Here Michael this might help explain

Alan

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Thanks Alan, but it doesn’t really help

The booking is to have a SMETS 2 meter installed, by some outfit called SMS who are working on behalf of Shell Energy [now owned by Octopus].

I didn’t request it … they cold-called to tell me it would be done, and to arrange an appointment … at first I thought it was a Scam, but Shell confirmed the arrangement.

I am fed-up to the back teeth with follow-up calls and eMails, and just want to get it over with.

From what I have read, I will be surprised if it connects [my pacemaker monitor doesn’t!] … I tried to discuss this with them, but they just work to a script and don’t appear to have ‘Receive Mode’ enabled.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

From my limited understanding … this [from the link that I posted] seems the most probable outcome:

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… But the situation might be saved by ‘the Mesh’ and it’s understanding at that level that I was hoping to gain.

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

According to https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/23/warning-for-millions-of-smart-meter-customers-over-incoming-change-19705441

If they can’t get it to work over 3G they can charge the customer £50 for a new meter. That’s not acceptable, it’s their meter, so it’s their problem

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

For the future there are options in 4G and 5G to support this type of application but of course that would mean replacing the meters.

From my lofty position of total ignorance on this, surely it should be possible to replace a circuit board within the meter rather than replacing the whole meter?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For general info. … The glossy video embedded on this page was what prompted my search for actual useful information:

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/how-do-smart-meters-send-readings/#:~:text=The%20communications%20hub%20transmits%20the,these%20to%20the%20DCC%20servers.

I guess my experience on 25-Jan will be more informative.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ might as well include this page for general enlightenment [this being about the HAN as distinct from the WAN]
https://www.smartme.co.uk/home-area-network.html

 

[Peter Greene]

On Peter Greene Said:

….. surely it should be possible to replace a circuit board within the meter rather than replacing the whole meter?

Although that would require more training and technical ability than some of the meter-swappers would appear to possess at the moment 🙁

Rob

[Peter Greene]

On Peter Greene Said:

On John Haine Said:

For the future there are options in 4G and 5G to support this type of application but of course that would mean replacing the meters.

From my lofty position of total ignorance on this, surely it should be possible to replace a circuit board within the meter rather than replacing the whole meter?

Probably a lot more to it than just swapping a board, anyway I doubt the construction was designed for serviceability. I suppose it could be refurbished or upgraded by the manufacturer but more likely it would be crushed and the raw materials reclaimed.

Link below is to a Big Clive video showing the inner workings of a S-meter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G32NYQpvy8Q&t=742s

 

Ian P

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

https://www.u-blox.com/en/product/sara-r500e-module

This is an example of the way cellular connectivity gets built in.  Very tiny surface mount module soldered to pcb.  Field replacement out of the question..

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just to keep this rolling until my reality-check on 25-Jan … this is the patronising drivel that Shell Energy puts out:

https://www.shellenergy.co.uk/smart-meters

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And [assuming things haven’t changed] there is a picture of the meter they are using, on page 4 of this:

https://www.shellenergy.co.uk/info/smart-credit-meter-user-guide-smets1

[ strange to see smets1 in that URL ]

Which looks like the one Big Clive inspected

 

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Some more trivia:

It appears that Shell Energy has used at least three different models, and that the one Big Clive inspected is SMETS-1

https://help.shellenergy.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360001043478-How-do-I-read-my-smart-meter-

Presumably therefore, mine will be different.

[ I doubt this matters to anyone but me ]

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[ UPDATE ]

The man from SMS arrived late-morning, and has just completed installation of the  Meter, complete with an indoor antenna, in the rather cramped meter cupboard.

As predicted: it has failed to connect to the system and is presently attempting to establish some sort of Mesh connection.

So … it’s shiny, very technical, and basically no more use to me than the old one.

But at least they can’t nag me any more … it’s their problem now, not mine.

MichaelG.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

[ UPDATE ]

 

But at least they can’t nag me any more … it’s their problem now, not mine.

MichaelG.

 

Don’t rely on that; see point  (f) below. After earlier refusing many times, I allowed myself to be “bribed” into smart meters last month. EON offered £50 per meter off my bill, (and every man has his price).

a) Neither meter connects.

b) No IHD, so I can’t really benefit from the promised “savings”

c) They are more difficult to read manually than the previous meters; smaller digits and the need to press buttons to show the correct display.

d) My on-line account has been altered to no longer allow input of electricity readings, only gas.

e) I have yet to receive my 2 x £50 payment

f) I still get emails asking me to have smart meters fitted.

Customer experience 0/10 !

 

 

 

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for that encouragement, Clive [sarcasm]

… Just what I needed !

Especially as

a) Shell Energy offered no inducement, and

b) it rather looks like SMS gave me the wrong type of HID

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[ UPDATE ]

First:  a correction to (b) in my previous post

HID should read IHD, and the device is evidently the correct one

Second: the Meter is metering, but it is still behaving dumb not smart

Third: I found some references yesterday to ‘the Mesh’ and would grateful for a sanity-check by anyone familiar with such matters

An apparently undated document from JRC

https://www.jrc.co.uk/Plugin/Publications/assets/pdf/ICT-Promoting-Innovation-and-Investment.pdf

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A U.K. Government information leaflet

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7497bced915d0e8e399740/Smart_Metering_System_leaflet.pdf

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These are both brief, but the messaging seems consistent … and at my location invalid 🙁

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For any communications geek who might be willing to explore this … here is the JRC home-page: https://www.jrc.co.uk/

Thanks in anticipation of someone having nothing better to do this weekend !!

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ from my admittedly naive perspective, it seems clear that JRC is in the process of providing good solid responses to rather broad-brush enquiries from Ofcom.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I’m pretty sure no-one has anything more to offer by way of comment, but I will continue making occasional posts on this Topic, as I get progressively more bewildered by the fiasco.

One day, some of it might make sense.

The latest I have found are these two self-congratulatory postings by Vodafone:

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https://www.vodafone.co.uk/newscentre/press-release/dcc-4g-upgrade-britain-smart-meter-system/

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https://www.vodafone.co.uk/newscentre/news/iot-breakthrough-awards-lauds-4g-smart-meters-upgrade/

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So that’s all lovely then … except for the minor inconvenience that my recently installed meter, complete with T1 antenna, is displaying a Meter Signal Strength of -99dBm and its WAN and HAN  indicators are resolutely OFF

[ the SW and MESH indicators are flashing ON every five seconds, which allegedly shows both to be good ]

I am thoroughly out of my depth, but presume that my node of the MESH is therefore connected to some other node, but that neither is connected to the cellular WAN.

MichaelG.

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