Small Cutter Grinder

[Kevin BennettParticipant @kevinbennett25223]

Hello All

This is my first post to this group, so thought I’d firstly introduce myself.

My name is Kevin, and I am a 56 year old and early-retired Engineer with a 8×10 workshop so space is limited for my Myford plus and Champion Mill , I am from Bracknell in Berkshire.

Can anyone help I am looking to scratch build a small cutter grinder can someone point me in the right direction for drawings it needs to be small and simple and low cost

Thanks Kevin

[Kevin BennettParticipant @kevinbennett25223]

Cutter Grinder

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

There was adesign for a fabricated cutter grinder in MEW 16 & 17.

There is also a design similar to the Quorn, called the Bonelle, plans for this are available from the Quorn owners Yahoo group.

 

I have copies of a number of designs for T&C grinders, PM me if I can be of help.

 

regards

 

Graeme

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello Kevin.

 

You can find a very good source of information in the book “Milling – a complete course” by Harold Hall for a simple and low cost tool and cutter grinder.

I have some pictures (bad quality pictures) of mine here:

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_photo.asp?a=7538&p=144139

 

Best regards

Dias Costa

Edited By dcosta on 26/12/2011 11:25:54

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Kevin,

Harold Hall’s book ” Tool and cutter sharpening” is a good book to give you ideas for several simple tool grinding rests and tool sharpening jigs. Some of the designs in the book are also shown on his website.

Harold Hall’s Website

 

There was a design similar to the Quorn in issue 179 of MEW (August 2011) built without castings. If you do a Google search for the following words followed by grinder you will find lots of information.

 

Quorn, Stent, Worden Bonelle

 

Les.

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Kevin,

 

The Quorn is a rather complex and eccentric design, and you should consider carefully whether its particular strengths are what you need. If not, look at the Stent or the Kennet. I would agree with Les’s suggestion of reading the Harold Hall book.

 

Also consider that you can probably buy a used Clarkson Mark 1 T&C grinder for about the same price as the castings for a Quorn, or any of the others for that matter. The experience you would gain making such a tool yourself would be great, but you may prefer to gain that experience making something else.

 

David

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Hi Kevin

I’d support looking at the Harold Hall design in the “Sharpening” book. The simpler design of grinding rest can be built using just hand tools, machining isn’t necessary (been there, done it), the only caveat I have with that design is that the fixing for the support column to the base could do with a broader footprint than the two bolts in line through the bottom flange of the angle.

Also have a look at this E-Bay item no 120831238673, RJH cutter grinder. It’s closed now but the design is very simple, and meant for lathe tools primarily, but with a few jigs to Harold’s designs it could be used for drills and milling cutters as well. You’ll see where the inspiration for the Worden came from!

Combining the idea of the RJH (also Worden) tilting table, and Harold’s ideas for improving a cheap bench grinder I think you could put something together quite quickly, cheaply and simply, that would allow you to do quite a bit of the sharpening you need. The table initially could be made from mdf or plywood as it’s purpose is support for the tool being ground. You could always laminate a skin of thin steel sheet to the mdf for wear resistance, and if distortion occurs over time well a replacement wouldn’t be expensive.

One though that has often struck me with replies to this question is that a number of contributors suggest that a Quorn or Bonelle etc should be one of the first approaches to getting a tool grinder – without saying what machine the would be Quorn etc builder is supposed to use to sharpen all the tools that they will need for the build.

The main thing is to get a simple design up and running and get the tools sharpened. Building fancy designs using the sharp tools can come later.

Keith

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Kevin… Have a look at this posting. Have a browse through the beginning. The Kennet is a simple but useful machine. The techniques used are very good and simple. I was going to use them to make a machine I have always coveted a Box Planer. I live in Hungary where the business men have discovered the ‘Minimum Order Quantity’. I could buy what I needed but only in 50 X1 litre cans. Their reason was we will not want ‘break bulk’ uram (sir). I was in their stores and could see the stuff was supplied in packs of 12 (4X3). They did not want to sell the stuff to a private individual. You want to hear (or rather do not the) rigmarole and paper work involved in buying planed timber –even when it is offered for sale in the racks as planed.
Rdgs and a Happy New Year

Dick

[Kevin BennettParticipant @kevinbennett25223]

Hi all thanks for all the information it looks like I will have some decisions to make and research the options and get the CAD going perhaps customise to fit my needs

Once again thanks for the help

Thanks Kevin

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Just to mention the Colyer-Caseley design recently published in MEW-179 since I couldn’t see that anyone else had.

 

I’m in the process of building one of these. It’s very straightforward, inexpensive and adaptable. (You will likely want to make a few changes since the original design leaves a bit to be desired in a couple of places. But the changes are both obvious and easy). Not as fancy or versatile as a Quorn – but then it’s a heck of a lot cheaper, easier to build and doesn’t need castings).

 

The drawing set can be bought for a fairly nominal cost and is pretty decent all told.

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Kevin … It all depends on what cutters you want to grind and how much you wish to grind off. For ordinary work like touching up lathe tools, drills, cold chisels etc. One of the first tools I bought was a small 6” offhand grinder. I still have it 65 years later. I now seldom use it. At one ME exhibition at Wimberley I bought two diamond coated files to do a job. They were a large flat file and a large rat tailed file. They were to straighten op some glass wear my mother in law had. I started to use these to ‘touch up’ lathe tools. I now have several diamond files and plates.

Drills I seldom break, but when I do I use the offhand grinder and true them up and finish them with a hone on a coarse diamond stone cutting plate. In the UK I could buy them for £2-£3. I run them in a small angle grinder (which someone had had binned) with a backing plate to stop the stone cutting plates from flexing.

In the late 1970s I bought my first vertical milling machine and then I made my tool grinder around 1980. Now I seldom use it. With a packet of Chinese diamond files and a bit of thought I can touch up an end mill by hand. I now use a trick written up by our good editor (David). This to touch the surface you are going to file with a felt tipped pen. It helps guide your filing. I know it is not as accurate as setting up a tool grinder but it is far quicker. Many of these tricks I learned at the SMAEE stand from Prof Chaddok.

Most of the complex equipment we have for sharpening things was designed for de-skilling and speeding the job up. If we have to do a ‘one off’ it is often better to do it by a bit of thought and by hand.

Oh by the way it is illegal to change a grinding wheel unless you have a certificate issued by your local authority.

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

i agree with Dias look at the @ Harold Hall books.

This is a good medium size project and I found I learnt a lot doing it and it is very versatile .

It has the advantage of being small and not a mamoth project like a quorn.

I have lathe , Mill etc and It can do more then I am capable of.

If you make the grinder hight adjustable, there was an article in MEW, this would make it a very capable device indeed.

 

Add a diamond wheel and your set for life.

 

I can supply more detaqil if needed.

 

Regards Clive

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Richard Parsons said: “Oh by the way it is illegal to change a grinding wheel unless you have a certificate issued by your local authority.”

 

Richard, this is only true where the equipment is used in a place of work; it does not apply to equipment used for domestic purposes in a private home; see this HSE guidance note, section “Do the Regulations apply to me?” Of course, you would be well advised to follow the guidelines found here even in the home, but you do not need to be certified.

 

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 27/12/2011 12:37:37

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Sid

Are you building the grinder to drawings or reversing it?

It looks left-handed to me.

regards David

 

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Some might think that we should be certified, and the blokes in white coats take use away, something about padded cells etc. I think the health & safety crowd would have a fit if they saw a few home workshops, but they don’t need to know. Ian S C

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 27/12/2011 13:15:00:

Are you building the grinder to drawings or reversing it?

It looks left-handed to me.

I know what you mean. In fact, the thread for the grinding-wheel mount is specified on the drawing as LH

 

I did consider reversing the design especially as it would have allowed me to use a better looking (though non-reversible) motor that I have lying around. But in all honesty, I didn’t think of it until after I started and by then it would have meant some hours of remaking parts (and purchasing new material). Since it turned out that suitable left-handed taps and dies were available off the shelf locally for a very reasonable price, I decided to stick with the original.

 

It would be quite easy to flip it around if you’re starting from scratch though.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I’ll post a photo of my T&C grinder made largely from scrap…

 

Neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Ian S C on 27/12/2011 13:18:39:

Some might think that we should be certified, and the blokes in white coats take use away, something about padded cells etc. I think the health & safety crowd would have a fit if they saw a few home workshops, but they don’t need to know. Ian S C

 

 

Hi Ian,

 

The HSE Executive are only concerned with H & S in the workplace which is where the regs apply in order to counteract the unscrupulous or careless employer – so you needn’t lose any more sleep over them invading your private territory.  We can all utter a sigh of relief and throw away those ‘Keep Out’ signs.

 

1974 saw the Shops, Offices and Railways Act replaced by the latest regs. Here’s a quote from The HSE website as food for thought :

 

“Between 1974 and 2011:

• Fatal injuries to employees have fallen by 82%
• Reported non-fatal injuries have fallen by 76%”

I bet the 500+ each year who now don’t die would salute the HSE if they only knew!

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I concur with the others about
Harold Hall’s designs.  Build as per instructions or make mods if you
are able, either design is a useful piece of kit I built both.

 

Best regards for a safe new year (and the rest of Yuletide ),

 

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 27/12/2011 17:47:46

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

> Between 1974 and 2011

 

Hi Terry,

 

Much as I take your point I wonder how much of that change is due to the shift away from heavy production work to service industries?

 

Neil

 

(who used a chainsaw without formal training in his first job and is now thankful that the folks he has chrage of need to undertake an extensive and examined course to do the same).

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Kevin,

 

As suggested I have (after several attempts) managed to upload some pictures to my albums.I wouldn’t suggest copy this layout, but it may give you some ideas. Some comments:

 

The tilting table works well, and is easy to make – I used phosphor brone bearings and rods from an old dot-matrix printer.

 

The top slide uses the same mounting system as my mini-lathe top slide, and is theoretically interchangeable. It has a scale marked in degrees with a vernier to 15 minutes.

 

The grinder is just a cheap clarke one but the bearings seem very good. The shaft is centred and by holding one end in the three-jaw and the other on a rotating centre I was able to turn the mount for a diamond wheel in place. The wheel rotates with no sign of shake or vibration.

 

You can flip the grinder/spindle end for end.

The base is 1 1/4″ ply and the vertical pillar is a bit of scaffold pole found at a roundabout.

 

The slide took several bouts of lapping and scraping before I was happy with it. It now works well, but the small size of the handle made it hard to use when it was less than perfect – I should put a square on the shaft and make a long, detachable handle.

 

The tool holder is removeable, it takes ER25 collets, the front and rear mounts are adjustable, only the front one has a clamp. At the tail end is a ratchet for angular setting with 12 notches that deals with most cutters.

 

The leadscrew is just M6 rolled studding, unfortunately it is the ‘wrong hand’. It has an index graduated in 40 steps 1~= 0.001″

 

With a diamond tipped wheel dresser you can get a really good surface on a normal wheel at the other end of the grinder – it pays to have one dressedand balanced in place as teh ‘flywheel effect’ helps keep the diamond wheel turning smoothly. I use brush applied paraffin as a lubricant for the diamond wheel, and apply very small cuts.

 

The table clamps are either end of a rod through some 1/2″ tube and run in curved slots. The whole assembly moves back and forth on two ‘rails’ of angle iron and a similar single ended clamp locks this movement. Adustment of the spinlde is hit and miss by loosening the clamps on the pillar.

 

There could be lots of improvements – a proper spindle closer to the pillar, a smoother and screw-controlled movement of the main assembly, bigger dovetails on the top slide and a better handle, a left hand thread on the lead screw. Changes I can make are adding stops and some sort of additional grit shielding for the slide bars. A steel instead of brass detent for the ratchet..

 

Neil

 

Here’s a couple of useful shots:

 

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 27/12/2011 18:13:12:

> Between 1974 and 2011

 

Hi Terry,

 

Much as I take your point I wonder how much of that change is due to the shift away from heavy production work to service industries?

 

Neil

 

(who used a chainsaw without formal training in his first job and is now thankful that the folks he has chrage of need to undertake an extensive and examined course to do the same).

 

Hi Neil,

 

Despite what some appear to believe, Heavy engineering is not the only industry. Besides, the death rate in that industry was relatively low. Most deaths at work historically occur in the agricultural, forestry, rail and building industries which are still very much active in the UK. In fact Forestry has the highest rate of deaths per 1000 employees out of all industry. All those ladders and chainsaws . By the way despite the fall in manufacturing we now make more cars (and components) than we ever did in the UK!

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I just found some pictures of my last H.H. grinding jig which was to be attached to an offhand grinder modified to take cup wheels. The first one shows the device just finished machining and assembled before taking apart and given a final makeover. the second picture shows the device after suffering the effects of a workshop fire. I’m in the process of refurbishing it at the moment (family Christmas’ and car maintenance get in the way of real work!).

 

 

 

Best wishes of the Season,

Terry

[Kevin BennettParticipant @kevinbennett25223]

Hi Neil it looks just what i am looking for

 

Thanks Kevin

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