Small butane torch refilling.

[YouraTParticipant @yourat]

So I’m clearly doing something wrong, because I can’t work out how to refill this little Butane hand torch.

I have a can of Butane and some adaptor nozzles:

but none seem to do the right thing – the little refill tube on the torch leaks gas from around its base when pushed in, and the screwdriver slots around the aperture would appear to prevent a seal in any case.

What am I missing (figuratively or physically)?

[peak4Participant @peak4]

The similar ones I have don’t use the little orange adaptors, just the tube straight out of the bulk refill.
Yes is does vent around the base, so as soon as liquid butane emerges, stop filling.
Yours may of course be faulty.
Bill

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

plus 1 for Peak4.

Bob

[James AlfordParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Mine is just as finicky. Sometimes it is nigh on impossible to get it to fill as gas comes out from everywhere. Other times, it fills perfectly, only letting out gas when it is clearly full. I have noticed that different brands of gas, with differing nozzles, also make a difference. Perhaps the nozzles are more suited to my torch. Swan gas seems to be the easiest to use on mine.

James.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I generally crack open the nozzle end of the mini/micro torch and refill vertically downwards.  It lets out the pressure and seems to allow a better recharge.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

As NDIY has said, I refill in the vertical down position. There is often some leakage. Mine has a clear tank so I can see what’s going on. Only using the spout on the can no adaptor. Good luck. Noel.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The plastic bits are mostly for alignment to help users with no mechanical understanding or poor eyesight to get the tube on the tube. You must make sure the receiving element, be it torch, kitchen gas lighter etc is cooler than the refill tank. Put it outside at this time of year. Have the tank inside in a warm room but not on the radiators, or inside your coat for an hour if operating outside.
Hold the receiver with a glove to avoid hand heat warming it and hold the tank in you hand to warm it. Fit together with tank upside down so that it is liquid that is transferring. If you have adequate dexterity move the two together to swirl the tank liquid with your hand at the upper end so that the gas in the can is pulling heat from you to keep the pressure up.
The top of the receiver has to vent gas to let the liquid in. The bigger the temperature difference the better. It will not transfer at all if the tank is cooler than the receiver.

[Graham TitmanParticipant @grahamtitman81812]

Yourat if you look on the Cleveden steam he does replacement gas valves it look like yours just screws in with a ground up screwdriver.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Just bought a replacement torch that looks just like that and it filled ok with no adaptors on the can. Out of interest the one I replaced was bought in 1986!!!

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, as far as refilling anything, you should follow the manufacturers instructions. However, in most cases, it will mean inverting the gas can, if you use it in the upright position, you will be injecting the Butane into your torch in its liquid form, and as it will expand inside your torch when it turns to gas, it may mean you are over pressurising it.

As others have said, you don’t normally need an adapter for these torches in most cases, but you do need the can nozzle to sit square on the little filling pin, and you normally only need a brief application.

Regards Nick.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

To the best of my knowledge [as a non-smoker] , the adapters are designed for compatibility with various cigarette lighters … and this is a convenient reference:

https://www.newport.global/adaptor-guide-version-2/

MichaelG.

[Nicholas Farr]

On Nicholas Farr Said:

Hi, as far as refilling anything, you should follow the manufacturers instructions. However, in most cases, it will mean inverting the gas can, if you use it in the upright position, you will be injecting the Butane into your torch in its liquid form, and as it will expand inside your torch when it turns to gas, it may mean you are over pressurising it.

As others have said, you don’t normally need an adapter for these torches in most cases, but you do need the can nozzle to sit square on the little filling pin, and you normally only need a brief application.

Regards Nick.

Really?
Every refillable gas lighter etc I’ve ever filled was filled with liquid, not gas. You invrt the can to GET liquid. Unlike paint cans etc there is no syphon tube.
If you filled with gass you would only get a few seconds burn time.
You can see the liquid in a lot of plastic lighters.

Robert.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Nick’s method will get some liquid into the lighter because the filler will compress and cool the Butane somewhat.  But better to do it the other way up so the fill is mostly liquid.

No need to worry about liquid/gas pressure, it’s 35psi at 25°C, not scary in plastic lighter quantities.

Not sure about Bazyle’s advice either. Only because as soon as gas and liquid start expanding the temperature of both filler and lighter will drop rapidly.  I guess cooling the receiver and warming the sender will help at the beginning, but the benefit won’t last.   Anyone up for an experiment?   Fill several identical lighters each starting at a different temperature and measure the weight of Butane that gets in with before and after weighing.

The result may be inconclusive because it’s difficult to bring the filler nozzle into contact repeatably:  Butane refills are crudely done with a fair amount of waste!

 

Dave

 

 

 

[YouraTParticipant @yourat]

Thanks everyone.

I do wonder if my problem is more related to the torch not being very empty, so as soon as I push down on the valve, loads of butane rushes out.

Is a cross-section of the valve arrangement available anywhere? I’m trying to get my head around how it works given there must be two paths for the butane, one in, and one out for the “I’m full” overflow.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Here’s one for the 3D CAD jockeys

https://grabcad.com/library/gas-filler-inlet-valve-1

.

Looks pretty good to my untutored eye

MichaelG.

[YouraTParticipant @yourat]

Thanks Michael.

I struggle a little with how that works – as soon as you  push down on the valve stem the seal is broken, and (because there is of necessity clearance) gas from the torch reservoir will escape around the side of the stem.

Is it the case that the whole affair relies on what’s coming out of the filler canister is liquid and thus will go more towards the torch reservoir than up the (narrow but present) clearance around the stem? Seems very crude…

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Yes … That is my understanding

Yes … very crude, but used relatively effectively in the multi-millions !

I wonder what the Worldwide daily leakage must be ?

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ See Ronson’s US Patent 3,895,904

.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

See also, the earlier Patent 2,882,940

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

On Nicholas Farr Said:

Hi, as far as refilling anything, you should follow the manufacturers instructions. However, in most cases, it will mean inverting the gas can, if you use it in the upright position, you will be injecting the Butane into your torch in its liquid form, and as it will expand inside your torch when it turns to gas, it may mean you are over pressurising it.

As others have said, you don’t normally need an adapter for these torches in most cases, but you do need the can nozzle to sit square on the little filling pin, and you normally only need a brief application.

Regards Nick.

Really?
Every refillable gas lighter etc I’ve ever filled was filled with liquid, not gas. You invrt the can to GET liquid. Unlike paint cans etc there is no syphon tube.
If you filled with gass you would only get a few seconds burn time.
You can see the liquid in a lot of plastic lighters.

Robert.

Hi Robert, I don’t know what I was thinking about, bit of a senior moment I reckon. When you invert the can to fill your torch/lighter, you actually get a mist, whereas, if used it the vertical position, you’ll get a weak mist, which is mostly gas. LPG gases turn to liquid under pressure, and that is why you see liquid in those plastic lighters, which will always have a portion of gas above the liquid, which gets bigger as the gas is used. the pressure of gas should remain fairly constant though, until all the liquid has boiled off. Even so, every can that I’ve had, says to use it in the inverted position.

Regards Nick.

[Author]

Posts