Slipping drill chuck

[Alan RawlinsParticipant @alanrawlins60482]

I have a Makita electric drill that I have had for a while now, from new. I know I don't have the strength of grip in my hands as I used to have but my son has the same problem as I have with my drill chuck. As it is a keyless chuck, I/ we can't get the chuck tight enough on a drill bit to stop the drill slipping when drilling into steel. This happens on drill bits above 3mm in Diameter. Does anyone know if there is anything that can be done to improve the chuck or is it a new chuck that is needed?

[Alan RawlinsParticipant @alanrawlins60482]

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

You could form some flats into the body to use a spanner on

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

If you can lock the spindle like you can on a Bosch a pair of grips would tighten the chuck up.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 11/08/2015 18:37:08

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

I put a Rohm chuck on my Makita cordless drill to improve the performance, but you still have to grip the back rim to tighten it as there's no spindle lock. Difficult as its not very wide.

What I do is hold the front of the chuck, forget the back rim, and press the trigger to "drive" the chuck closed. And put it in reverse to open it . Set the ratchet clutch to come into play quite early so it doesn't try to twist your wrist.

Throw your hands up in horror, but it works and I have never had a problem.

Many years ago I knew a sawmill operator who did this with his big mains drill with a keyed chuck and no ratchet clutch, and I thought he was being a bit silly. And showing off.

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

You can get drills with hex shafts which can't slip in the chuck, but be careful since a lot of the cheaper ones are poorly made and don't run truly. Some time ago I picked up some very well made ones and they are a joy to use.

Doug

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

More recent electric drills seem to have some sort of automatic spindle lock so there is plenty of chuck to grip.

The keyless chucks on lathes often grip larger drills better if the drill is pushed right back in as far as it can go even on the Rhone ones.

I still use a plug in Elu, 3/8in at times but fitted with a 1/2in Jacobs all steel chuck with 2 rings. It grips well and the rear ring is wider than some. Your best bet might be to go back to not remembering where you put the chuck key.

John

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[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Posted by John W1 on 11/08/2015 20:47:36:

The keyless chucks on lathes often grip larger drills better if the drill is pushed right back in as far as it can go even on the Rhone ones.

John

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Not a good idea. Proper keyless chucks, Albretch et al, self tighten under pressure and need a bit of space to accommodate the small axial shift. If you put the drill in right against the back or if its slips back before self tightening sufficiently to hold firm it will very likely jam up good and proper and be atotal PIA to remove. Pipe wrench or big strap wrench time especially if its a big drill. Yikes! I'm told the undoing process has to pull the drill back drill a thou or three to release the self tighten effect. If the chuck is due for a service it will tend to jam even if the drill is not hard against the back.

Recently had to take the 16 mm Valdus keyless chuck off my big pillar drill for this very reason and need to find out how to get it apart. Got the instructions for Albrecht but is this the same. A 13 mm Albrecht out of the lathe kit makes adecent stop gap tho' as akeyed chuck isn't such a pest on a lathe.

I do the spin up using the motor thing for tightening the chuck on my 14V Makita which doesn't have a spindle lock. Theoretically you can hold the rear ring whilst turning the front but in practice ther isn't enough room for normal hands. Might have been workable if the rear ring were larger diameter but as is you tend to grip both. Fortunately my 18 V Makita has a spindle stop. Tried the under power trick once. Lucky not to loose a deal od skin! In my world two drills are essential for DIY. 18V to make the holes, 14V to set the screws. Life is to short to keep swopping drills for screwdriver bits and back again.

Clive.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I didn't get the exact name of the chuck correct should be Rohm but a few people have mentioned slipping, larger drills and drill position so I tried it on mine which is a Porta Validus and found the same thing. The Validus supposed to be self tightening. It is obtained by there being some back and forth play in the chucks outer body. Hand tightening force the outer body forwards. Pushing the drill home rests it on a part that doesn't move at all. Rather odd that it increase the grip because on the face it the self tightening can't do anything at all. One thing for sure though when I do that it doesn't slip. I only have problems anyway if taking a lot out with blacksmith drills on harder materials.

The whole idea of these self tightening chucks is that the grip tighter as the whole body of the chuck and the drill is pressed back. If it can't be then it can't self tighten which is a bit of an incorrect description anyway – they tighten more under pressure.

Perhaps another answer to slipping to only leave a few thou gap between the end of the drill and the part that doesn't move to maximise the contact length and reduce the chances of the jaws bell mouthing which they will if there isn't sufficient drill in them.

John

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[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Alan, in my experience this is a common problem to these chucks on many makes of drills, both lead and battery types. I've used many different makes in industry and even from new they all seem to suffer this problem. personally I prefer a keyed chuck and if they are tighten correctly they do not have slippage, however that depends on everyone who uses them to tighten them correctly, as once they are allowed to be used with slippage they just get worse.

Regards Nick.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

My experience of the chucks fitted to portable drills is that I can't tighten them enough to prevent slipping but I can tighten them enough so that I can't undo them!

Russell.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I have an old Bosch drill with a good proper keyed chuck and even that has struggled with 5-6mm bits into steel on my cheapo Lidl drill press

Only my 3.5 inch lathe chuck (a 4 incher) has had the strength to make drilling into steel easy

My tailstock chuck hasn't been too bad but it's pretty big with a diameter of around 52mm, they are very cheap at the moment on a well known auction site and a bit of a bargain (170942390763)

If you could fit one of those to your drill then life could be a lot easier

Edited By Ady1 on 12/08/2015 09:51:00

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Hi Alan,

I sympathise and have a couple of suggestions.

Drill bits with 3 flats or even hex shaft don't need the chuck to be so tight. Dewalt extreme 2 for example.

The other suggestion is to use a boa wrench to tighten the chuck…

They're a very cheap but effective non-marring way to unscrew chucks from lathe spindles.

HTH

Jon

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

On a slightly different vane can any one recommend a make of screw driver bits for cordless drills, Phillips Blade etc a range or set. I'm going to Screw Fix today and they have a bewildering range in their catalogue. I've got some at the moment but they must be soft steel and are pretty useless.John

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Hi John,

I'd stick to Wera or Wiha specialist screwdriver manufacturers or Bosch who have good quality accessories too – The TiN coated ones with and without diamonds. I have used them all and they are all well formed, precise and hard.

DeWalt may also be ok but never tried them.

They aren't cheap but then that's not what you asked for.

HTH

Jon

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

DeWalt coated ones have been OK for me. A flip top pack of no 2 Pozi has lasted for 2 large timber workshops, a decent size house extension and 5 years of DIY in the intervening periods. Not bad considering the two builder guys involved were stealing from the pack too and builders seem to get about 1/3 rd to 1/4 the number of screws per bit as I do. (Is it normal practice for builders to borrow your tools more than they use theirs! ).

Casual observation suggests that one size collections are generally better quality than mixed sets.

I find the longer variety with the turned down section sitting just outside the magnetic bit holder go better than the stubby all hex ones. Especially in the cheapy set collections. I imagine the turned down section gives a bit of torsional flexibility to abosorb that "just a bit too tight" torque that would otherwise lead to cam out, a damged screw and reduced bit life. I keep the shorties for ordianry screwdriver handles. Obviously setting the torque limiter is agreat help to long life as is checking that the bit actually fits the screw properly. There are some right ropy screws out there even from reputable suppliers, Screwfix pan heads can be bad, and trimming back the pointy end of the bit often gives a much better fit. Most of the cheapies are too long in the point. Especially the smaller Phillps ones. Not a bad idea to have some sacrificial cheapies about the place to modify where a good fit on a small screw is needed. Phillips type with the tapered sides on the wings were designed to cam out once the limiting torque was reached so the driver needs all the help it can get.

Clive.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive Foster on 12/08/2015 11:36:21:

… considering the two builder guys involved were stealing from the pack too and builders seem to get about 1/3 rd to 1/4 the number of screws per bit as I do.

.

Clive,

From bitter personal experience; there are three details missing from [some] builders' education.

1. Pilot holes are sometimes useful
2. Pozi and Phillips recess screws require different bits
3. Power Drill/Screwdrivers have adjustable torque settings.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The trouble with an exact phillips head and driver is that they are designed to cam out to make mass production work easier. The Japanese modified the bits and called it JIS. The main change was to the cam out so they are not so inclined to slip. They also must have had better control of the torque settings on the power screw drivers they use for this sort of thing.

For wood screws it probably pays to stick to poxi and be sure to use a poxi drive bit or screw driver with it. The heads of the screws should be marked differently. Think that is on the wiki. There also seems to be some screws about that don't fit into either category.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 12/08/2015 13:07:18

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

From bitter personal experience; there are three details missing from [some] builders' education.

1. Pilot holes are sometimes useful
2. Pozi and Phillips recess screws require different bits
3. Power Drill/Screwdrivers have adjustable torque settings.

MichaelG.

Also advice to tyre fitters: air wrenches are NOT a musical instrument.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

GKN's original Pozidriv is very clearly marked, and very effective.

… BFI archive film here.

My Dad was involved when they introduced them to the U.K. so I learned a bit about the subtleties of the design.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … John; is 'poxi' the name for the cheap, nasty, copies?

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I buy the bits in packs of 10 or 12. Any of the good brands seem ok. I bought a set of extra long hex bits ,about 6" long, very cheap. I use these when screws have to be undone, just place the correct bit in the pocket and wack with big hammer. This forms the head and loosens the screw, usually. Builders- never lend them anything, they never return it, hope my mate is reading this.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posidrive was originally invented by Phillips and the American screw company, it was just GKN who brought it to popularity.

Phillips is designed to cam out and prevent over-tightening (originally for assembling light alloy aircraft), Posidrive is designed to take a lot more torque.

In very rough and ready terms, abusing Phillips ruins your screwdriver, abusing Posidrive ruins the screw.

Not a lot of people know that

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 12/08/2015 13:23:42:

GKN's original Pozidriv is very clearly marked, and very effective.

… BFI archive film here.

My Dad was involved when they introduced them to the U.K. so I learned a bit about the subtleties of the design.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … John; is 'poxi' the name for the cheap, nasty, copies?

Must be freudian slip to show what I really think about all of them.

John

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[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 12/08/2015 16:26:37:

Not a lot of people know that

.

… even fewer know that it's Pozidriv not Posidrive

[Dinosaur EngineerParticipant @dinosaurengineer]

And the worse thing you can do is to use a posi-drive screwdriver in a Phillips screw and vice- versa.

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