Simpler the Better -what do you use?

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Anyone looking for an easy to use CAD system should cast an eye over the ViaCAD range of products. I’ve been using ViaCAD Pro for a couple of years now and find it to be exceptional in its drawing and file sharing capabilities.

Rather than me try to list its functions I’ll just include a link.  http://www.punchcad.com/full_store.html prices start at less than US $50 or £32.

 

Martin.

[Tim StaceyParticipant @timstacey83769]

Hi,

 

when asking for a CAD programme and what is best you need to ask what you want to do. If you are after a simple 2D programme and just using a system for “drawing” then you need something different to a full 3D programme.

 

Many of the cheap programmes here are 2D or limited 3D. if you want “solid” modelling where you produce solid objects in the CAD then you need something like Alibre or Solidworks. I have just bough Alibre as it is the easiest programme I have found within the last 10 years of me playing with different CAD systems from AutoCAD, through Turbo CAD and Solidworks. This is the only solid modelling system that I have found really easy to use and there are great online videos for training and support. I would rate it as far simpler than any of the more expensive systems on the market that we use at work.

 

I have nothing to do with the company but it looks easier than anything I have seen or used so far.

 

Tim

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

If you want to produce 2D machine drawings rather than extensive CAD stuff, then Solid Edge 2D (as mentioned on the first page of this thread) produces excellent results, and the learning curve really isn’t that steep, all things considered. Yes there are one or two little niggles, but no more than on any other drawing package I’ve used., and they can all be got around. I can’t think of anything that I couldn’t make a convincing machine drawing of using it, that’s for sure. As with any other package, it has its own way of doing things, but once you’ve got used to this it’s pretty easy to create stuff at a good rate. It’s still in current maintenance – there is an updated version of it with a few bugs fixed that’s been released within the last few months. And ues, it’s completely free.

 

One of the good things about it is that without any fuss, its output creates pretty good pdf’s using PDFCreator (also free), and a lot of other programs don’t work anything like as well carrying out the same task. Also it produces Microstation and .dxf documents if you need them, so it’s flexible enough.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Just to add a little more meat to the bones of my previous post.

I find that ViaCAD has really good, clean DXF and STL file exports, which makes life so much easier when working with a CAM system (in my case, the mighty CamBam).

If you only want to work in 2D, then 1 click on an icon and all the 3D related stuff is taken offscreen – another click and it’s back. Very simple and effective, particularly for newcomers, which I think is what the original poster was looking for.

 

Martin.

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Has no-one heard of CadKey? It’s now KeyCreator by Kubotek.

 

`Draughting’ the whole of my skeleton clock in 3D was a breeze.

 

Sam

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by blowlamp on 18/10/2010 22:20:35:

 

Very simple and effective, particularly for newcomers, which I think is what the original poster was looking for.

 Actually, I don’t think he was. What he said was:

“It does everthing I need. Available from http://www.deltacad.com

Just wondering if there are any other basic packages users have found useful?”

 

And pretty much, we’ve told him!

 

With all of these packages, they have their little idiosyncrasies – that’s inevitable. And also with most of them, if you persevere, you will succeed in getting useful work out of them. I think that the real art here – if it’s possible – is to find a package that’s simple enough to get to grips with in the first place, yet won’t disappoint you at a later stage when your draughting skills have improved. And on that basis, Solid Edge performs pretty well. And I’m sure that it’s not the only one; it just happens to be the one I picked.

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Hi Blowlamp,

I had a short look at Viacad and after seeing the video was quite impressed. What was not really clear (or maybe I overlooked it) : is this a parametric program? What I understand about this feature is: if you draw a arbitrary line on a clean screen, then select the dimensioning tool and change the dimension of this line to the value it should have, is the line then changed to this lenght?

In the ‘ordinary’ CAD programs, if you want a line to be 50 mm long (or 2″ for you), you have to draw the line in exactly that length..

I would really like to know which kind of program it is.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

The best package is the one you are most at ease with.

 

It’s no good trying to push your choice onto someone else as peoples skills, needs and wants are different .

Best way is to get a list of of recommendations, download the demo’s  and spend some time with each doing the tutorials.

 

One note though, like any decent model it’s not going to happen overnight, you need to spend some time and effort into finding the best one FOR YOU, payback will then be over a lifetime.

 

John S.

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Just in case anyone reading through the replies thinks no-one gets on with TurboCad,.I do!  Started with the DOS version which was… err…. difficult. V2 for windows was the one I got to grips with. Now on v16.

 

Although it’s a 3D package (so it looks complicated), I onlty draw in 2D to produce dxf’s for my cnc machine.

 

Other than that, I would agree entirely with the comments of John S above.

 

A Tcaddie laddie – Pete

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Hi Versaboss.

It probably depends on your definition of Parametric.
Line lengths and angles are easily changed, but not by directly editing any dimensioning you may have entered.
Changing a lines attributes updates the dimensions, rather than the scheme you mention, that changing the dimensions has the effect of updating the lines attributes – if that makes sense!
To try and make it a little clearer, I’ve included a link to a video I made, that tries to answer some of your questions and shows the switch between 2D and 3D modes.
If it’s still not clear, then let me know.

 

Martin.

 

http://www.screencast.com/users/Hammering/folders/Jing/media/0846dd3d-8a1d-4d67-b3ea-b249abd6db23

[Anonymous]

Wow, neat video; sad, but I enjoyed watching it!

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Sam, I’ve got one called Key Cad Complete by the Softkey people, don’t know if it’s the same lot. This version is copyright 1999 The Learning Company, and part of CompuServe Inc. It’s pretty straght forward and was designed for Windows 3.1/95/98. Works OK on XP and Vista, but used to freeze up after a while on Windows 2000 so you had to save almost every step. It doesn’t compare with the likes of Autocad of course but it is fairly simple, I think it cost about a Tenner which wasn’t a bad price. I use this one to plot out my family tree on, my latest print out for that is 36″ X 45″

 

Regards Nick.

[Derrick WatsonParticipant @derrickwatson66926]

Can I add t-flex (student edition) to the list

 

http://www.tflex.com/

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Hi Martin,

thanks for the video, it makes me even more interested. Well I think it is parametric just in the sense I wrote in my first post; it is not much difference if I can edit the dimension value directly  or write the value in a special entry field!

I have to add that I own a copy of Alibre, but with certain properties of that progran I am not happy. Although the Swiss representatives are very friendly, I don’t want to annoy them with my problems, and a support contract is much too expensive for a occasional user.

So maybe I will throw up these $99 ( exchange rate is very low atm.  ) in the hope that I will get a system that brings my ideas to paper much faster than Alibre. If not, I still have a fallback.

I will have a look at the vendor’s video and feature list again especially to find out which operations are possible with the 3D model (Hole drilling e..g.), and how to position the model in a sensible spatial orientation

A pity they don’t offer a trial version!

Many thanks, Hansrudolf

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

I must admit that I was impressed with what you could (apparently easily) do with viaCAD, and Martin’s video. I do know one person who’s been looking for a relatively easy 3D package for a while, and on the basis of what I’ve seen I’ll get him to have a look at it, I think. If I ever get my CNC router/mill built, then that may well be the sort of package I’m looking for too. Till then though, I’ll stick with what I’ve got – just for the sake of a quiet life!

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Hi Chaps.

I sometimes find it easier and quicker to do a demo video than try to explain a feature.

There is a demo download here. http://www.punchcad.com/demo_form.cfm

And another rather large (13.6mb) video of me doing some holes, etc and forgetting to change the Workplane to correctly orientate the Polygon for use with the CutOut tool.

 

Incidentally, the Hole tool can also do Counterbores and Countersinks of any sensible depths and angles.

 

http://www.screencast.com/users/Hammering/folders/Jing/media/f5b910a5-2b85-4fcc-aa8d-1ac158012f8d

 

I hope some find it useful.

 

Martin.

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Hi Martin,

thanks for the link to the trial version. I did the download (sloooowly!) and installed it. As to be expected, the difficulties came up very fast. Apart from the fact that it seems that I don’t see the whole window on my (19″) screen (at the right I see something like X=,y= z=, but not more), I see a lot of tools mentioned in the tutorial which I cannot find. Even on your videos it is not always clear how you achieved the result. But I think we should not start a ViaCad tutorial here, or should we?

If I cannot get over the first big hurdles, then maybe I have to ask some questions by PM.

But I admit that the general handling of this program is to my liking.

Except, maybe, that I managed to delete all tools and don’t know how to restore them… )

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Hansrudolf.

I can’t tell you why you’re not getting the full window, as it’s not something I’ve experienced.

As for some of your other questions…

…here comes another video 

http://www.screencast.com/users/Hammering/folders/Jing/media/5ec4d877-bbb5-4ec5-bfa3-940df137c34e

I have some additional tools, as I’m running ViaCAD Pro v6, but your demo version of ViaCAD 3D/3D v7 has some tools, bug fixes and enhancements that I’ll have to wait for, until Pro also gets an update to v7.

 

Go to Menu -> Help -> Tutorials and check out some of the included videos etc, to find out more.

 

I’m by no means an expert at using ViaCAD, but I’ve managed to do what I need. If you want a tutorial thread, I’d be happy to contribute where I can.

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 22/10/2010 14:26:30

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Hi Martin,

just want to tell you that I could solve my initial troubles; well maybe not all, but at least I got the tools icons back! A case of a bad human interface: Who would suspect that a menu item “Tools” serves to toggle the visibility of the tools! Maybe a bit of professional bias here; I worked as programmer and know that the design of a intelligible h.i. is very important. Many books have been written about that.

But I digress. I already could draw a simple part and had a look into some of the tutorials. Unfortunately at the moment I have not much time to play with the program. Was trying today to change the templates for the drawing sheet; with mixed success. I miss a “edit text” function!. But the layout of the drawing is really good; although it is ‘the other way round’ to what we use here (3rd versus 1st angle I think).

I hope I can make enough tests before the test period terminates!

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

I’ve been using Vectorworks (for Mac) and its predecessors since about 1990 and grew with it.  To start now, would be an incredibly steep learning curve, but it is a very powerful, full featured program.

 

My version 11 unfortunately won’t run worth a damn on the latest Mac OSX and they want £1,600 to upgrade to a workable version.

 

Unwilling to part with that lump of dosh, I’ve been looking at TurboCad for about £1,400 odd less, which should import DXF documents of all my old stuff and wouldn’t bankrupt the household finances. 

 

All I have to do now, is to find a convincing argument to sway the keeper of the purse strings. 

 

Ian 

[AcrosticusParticipant @acrosticus]

DraftSight is a free CAD package downloadable from Dassault Systemes

 

http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/draftsight-overview/

 

I have this and it looks useful, though I haven’t done much with it yet.

It will load and save in DXF and DWG formats.

[William FryersParticipant @williamfryers49868]

Hi

Dassault systems has recently released a program called Draftsight

This is a 2 D CAD package that is pretty much as good as a 2 or 3 year old version of AutoCAD. It is free! Just Google Draftsight. It is a fully professional level product 

 

A full 3D CAD package like Solidworks is great, but it is loads of money and takes a lot of learning. However once you get the hang of it it is fun “a computer game for Engineers”

 

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Ian

Just noticed your post re  TurboCAD as an alternative to VectorWorks.  I have both and reckon if you are used to VectorWorks certain aspects of TurboCad will have you inventing new and ever more powerful swear words at ever increasing volume!  I imagine CAD programmers are in for a very er “interesting” afterlife.

 

I bought VectorWorks 10 post redundancy, decided that it was too much hassle to get on with and went back to pushing ClarisDraw to well beyond its design limits.  Eventually figuring I really should go to proper CAD I picked up TurboCAD on special offer believing the “its simpler” reputation.  I eventually got some sense out of it after a lot of reading on the help forums.  Then after TurboCAD Pro V 2.0 IMSI apparently lost the rights to the code base and changed to a completely different system.  I got the side-grade-upgrade, TurboCAD Mac Deluxe, which was a buggy as could be with a lot of features gone and pretty much zilch support.  Even the forum stalwarts seem to had given up so I bit the bullet about 18 month back and am making a serious effort with VectorWorks.  Use-ability doesn’t impress me that much, some things are silly hard like hatch and library import / management but progress is being made.  The old TurboCAD had an excellent library of useful components but insertion was a complete pain, in comparison VectorWorks handles the insertion very smoothly if what you want is in its standard libraries.  Trying to insert a bolt or similar to the right size with TurboCAD is not for the faint hearted.

 

If you are running an Intel processor Mac it might be best to use the dual boot or virtualisation capability to run Alibre which seems to be generally impressive as a semi-pro intrinsically 3D program in the modern mode.  I’ve yet to dare 3D but it seems hard work in Vector and similar evolved from 2D programs.  If you are on an Intel machine and ever decide that you’d like a few shekels back on VectorWorks 11 I would be interested in purchasing it as an upgrade to my V10 as I intend to stay with my Dual G4 Mac until it dies.

 

Clive 

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Hi Clive,

 

I’m running Vectorworks 11 on an old G3 laptop, but it will run on the dual processor G5 with OS 10.4.  The G3 won’t accept anything after 10.0.0.

 

Unfortunately, I upped the G5 to OS 10.5.8 to be in cync. with the Intel MacBook, but 10.5 scrambles the display.  The most awkward thing is that our new Epson printer can’t be used with the G3.  In the interim, I’m printing to PDF and transferring to the Intel to print.  But…. PDF’s shrink everything to A4 size.

 

Now you’ve got me thinking again about the TurboCad.  I think at this point, I think I need to find a newer G-something which will accept 10.3 or 4.  Had a nice G4, all souped up, but left it in Canada, along with a lot of stuff that we thought that we’d never use again…….

 

Oh well.

 

Ian 

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Hi Ian

 

Looking at flea-Bay Apple G4 and G5 towers are getting into the chump change bracket so a perfectly adequate CAD only machine could probably be found under £200.  Difficult bit seems to be finding a machine with OSX 10.4 and disks or OSX 10.4 Tiger disk set.  Seems my 1.25 Dual Quicksilver is only worth about £120 on the open market which is  a good reason not to do the Intel jump.  If you have a display I’d be tempted to try a mini.

Looks as though Vector have pretty much given up on the mechanical design market  as all the Engineer / Mechanical features have (allegedly) been folded into the basic program and no further development is planned.  Another good reason not to fork out £1600 on the upgrade.

Never understood why the program makers don’t  continue to sell a frozen “last version suitable for OS whatever” version at low price on a no support basis.  Its no wonder people are tempted to pirate.  Vectorworks website explicitly says that versions 11 and below won’t run on Leopard and wont be upgraded.

 

Clive 

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