Sievert – leaky propane torch

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

I recently bought a needle point burner and neck tube for my Sievert torch. The neck tube has a brass 'plug' that fits into a conical shaped brass 'socket' in the handle. This is held in place by the captive nut which tightens onto the handle drawing the 'plug' into the 'socket'.

Although there seems to be no way of sealing this joint other than the pressure of brass on brass, the existing neck tube has been trouble free ever since I've had the torch.

Unfortunately the new burner doesn't seal, leaking profusely from the joint even though there is no discernable damage to the 'plug'.

The high cost of postage from Canada to the supplier in the UK and back again makes returning it for a replacement impractical, so any suggestions as to how I may cure this leak would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Clive

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

HI Clive,

The connectors from regulator to propane bottle have the same brass in brass fitting and they are usually gas tight. They appear to be designed so that even with wear there is always a prefect circle of contact and a tight seal without excessive force. If you have a leak that means there is probably either damage to the new plug or dirt in the way, your old plug and socket have worn, but to match each other, or something on the new part is a long way out of specification. Is the assembly rigid when tightened up?

Neil

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for the response.

The existing neck tube and handle have only been used a few times, so I don't think that they have worn to match, and I did check carefully for any dirt, and also made sure that the the assembly is completely rigid when tightened up.

Which only leaves damage or out of spec ( I hope that Sievert quality control standards aren't dropping). I am wondering if it would be wise to lightly sand the plug with some fine emery paper to see if that will help?

Clive

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi Clive

I'm assuming the plug has a slightly convex surface, but in any case don't try sanding it yet – colour it with a felt tip pen, plug it in and work the two parts together. If you get a bright ring on the plug, then it should seal OK.

Neil

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Thanks Neil,

The felt pen is an excellent idea which has revealed an approximately 2 mm wide flat spot that wasn't otherwise visible. Not sure what I can do about it though, as the tube part seems to be permanently attached to the plug preventing me from chucking and skimming it in the lathe. It seems as if my only recourse may be to order a replacement and hope that it is fit for purpose this time – the hazards of international purchasing

Clive

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hi Clive,

Why dont you send a polite email to the outfit that supplied it,suggesting its not fit for purpose.

Did it come from UK? If they reply with a `get lost` sort of attitude, try emailing manufacturer, complaining about their retailer. I should point out that UK law states that you have made a supply contract, by the very act of payment, this usually is the retailer, not distributor or manufacturer and the receiver of that payment is responsible for carrying out that contract. Beware that a lot of retailers seem to `try it on` and fob customers off with faults being the manufacturers problem. I am referring generally, not suggesting that any reputable Model Engineering supplier does that sort of thing. The alternative is the local Consumer Dept at the Council but I dont know if they would do anything about exports.

Good luck and let us all know how you get on. Maybe someone else can supply further help if necessary.

John.

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

Hi Clive I had a similar problem with the cone joint on a used regulator, caused by rough handling creating a flat on the brass cone. I suggest that your damage on a new item is posibly the result of it being dropped or more likely something being dropped on it. This could have occured in transit but as the supplier knew they were shipping overseas they should have ensured the pacakaging was suitably robust. If the packaging was undamaged on reciept then it reasonable to assume the item was faulty on dispatch. Either way, assuming the supplier arranged the shipping then they are duty bound to replace the item FOC including shipping, and provide you with a means of returning the old item at their cost; presuming that your contract of sale was made under UK law. If however you got someone to buy it for you in the UK and they subsequently posted for you, it then you would bear much more of the liability. I agree with DMB send a polite e.mail pointing out the defect and the inconvenience and suggesting they provide you with a replacement within a reasonable period of time (perhaps 30 days) or providing you with the reasons why they are not prepared to do so. CC the e.mail into customer service at Sievert and see what response you get.

Brian

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Hi John and Brian,

Thanks for the suggestions, but to my mind, if anything Sievert is at fault and not the UK supplier. The item arrived in undamaged factory packaging which would suggest that it left the factory in faulty condition. If I was in the UK I would most definitely return it to the supplier for a replacement, but considering that the international postage each way is close to the retail value on the item, I think it would be a bit unfair on the supplier for me to expect them to cover that cost

I have emailed Sievert UK directly, hopefully they will see fit to send out a replacement.

Thanks,

Clive

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

If all else fails and you are stuck with the faulty part :- Try a bit of PTFE sealing tape round the cone bit., Make a female same as the torch fitting then lap the offending part, use find grinding paste the brasso or similar.

[CuP AlloysParticipant @cupalloys]

Hi Clive,

Declared interest – we are Sieverts largest supplier to the model engineer in the UK.

Sorry to hear of your problem. It is not common but not unknown. Sieverts quality is good but there is always a possibility of a problem. I have known leaks because neck tubes have not been tightened up sufficiently. Let's assume that is not the case here.

Your supplier sold it to you. Simply put – it is their responsibility to rectify it no matter where in the world you are. The cost of postage should not be an issue. Let them take it up with their supplier. Not all Sievert products sold in the UK have come from Sievert UK! That could well be the problem.

Email your supplier direct. Let them see the problem. Expect them to offer free replacement and credit your card with any postage.

If you remain unhappy email me at keith@cupalloys.co.uk. I will try to help. Then don't deal with your supplier again and tell your friends why.

regards

keith

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

Hi Clive

I too had a faulty handle- bougth second hand so entirely my look out. Sievert UK could not have been more helpful . Their customer servcie is superb- no other word for it. Identified the faulty washer and supplied a new one.

try the supplier then, if no joy Sieverts.

regards

Ian

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hi Clive,

I agree with you regarding it seems unfair to expect reimbursement of shipping charges on faulty goods. However, that is UK law and if a business exports with higher shipping costs involved then they must accept the risk. I believe that a lot of goods are charged + shipping + Insurance so no doubt they will pit in a claim.

See what response tou get and then decide on the next move!

Good luck,

John.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Hi Clive,

No question the supplier should make it right and replace the unit at no cost to you.

However, in the meantime until that is resolved, you can probably get the torch to work by making a thin rubber flat washer to fit in the female side of the joint and with a hole slightly bigger than the gas outlet in it. A 1/32" thick or thereabouts neoprene, silicone or soft natural rubber washer will likely work. When you place the male joint part in, the washer will conform to the spherical surface and take up any gaps to seal it without altering / sanding or reworking any parts.

JD

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Thanks everyone for all the valuable advice.

I did contact Sievert UK, who responded very promptly and politely, but as Keith surmised the item wasn't sourced directly from them so they were unable to help me. Instead they also suggested that I raise the issue directly with the company who supplied me with the burner.

I have always had excellent service from this particular company so don't foresee any problems. However I am a little reticent at rocking the boat because for those of us in the colonies, even such first world colonies as Canada, we often have to rely on imports from the US or UK for our model engineering supplies. I can't imagine that these export orders form a significant percentage of sales for many of these suppliers, who could then potentially stop the practise if it is no longer cost effective.

Regards,

Clive

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Clivel ,

Why can't you just hand finish the cone using fine files and emery paper ? . Using Neil's felt tip marker to test the fit it as you progress job would take five minutes tops .

Michael Williams

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 04/08/2012 19:02:02

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

Very quick, if a bit dirty fix, is to use gas jointing compund. Put a bit on the cone and tighten down slwoly. Leave for about 15 mins to go off and you should have no leak. If it's a one off job needed urgently this will work.

To get the cured compund off afterwards use methylated spirits ( ethyl / methyl alcohol mix) but as the compund is still slightly felxible it might be possible to just "squash it" to fit other burner plugs..

Long tem solution is either return or as Michael says refine the finish to fit.

Hope that''s of use

ian

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