Shipping to the EU – beware!

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

So far since Brexit we have attempted to ship six boilers (so essentially each a cardboard box 44 x 33 x 32 cm @4kg) into France and Belguim.All were correctly packed and had the apropriate customs invoices attached. Here is the outcome. Two sent via Hermes, both landed back on my doorstep six weeks later having never left the country. Two sent via DPD, both landed back on my doorstep eight weeks later. Two sent via UPS, one made it to france. The other made it to Belgium but was immedtately returned with a sticker on it saying recipient refused to pay import duty – recipient was never asked to pay duty. And the icing on the cake – UPS today billed me for £112 import tax from Belguim to the UK. Thats for failing to deliver my very own boiler and returning it to me. The lost shipping cost alone is around £250! You just couldnt make it up. Impossable to speak to a living entity within any of these companies. Meeting with our MP to highlight these issues but seriously hacked off. Rant over. Nothing libelllous as its all true!

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

And that is only the beginning, the "fun" will start seriously when covid is behind us.

Before you (the UK) left the EU I bid and bought at UK auctions, now no longer to great a risk with import and cites problems (import of endangered goods).

Niko.

Edited By speelwerk on 05/05/2021 21:21:52

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I have just spoken to the owner of a company that frequently sends and receives goods to and from abroad.

Something that took two or three days to an from the EU now takes two or three weeks. Last month he had 9 shipments arrive via UPS and they bill him £40 each time as an 'import charge' and have not explained the breakdown of the charge. He is not happy!

Its very depressing and I dont see it improving, I cannot say I have been affected but I have stopped purchasing things from abroad.

Ian P

[Gerhard NovakParticipant @gerhardnovak66893]

I am pretty sure some of the 'import charges' are going direct into the pockets of the forwarding companies, using every excuse to make money. I also can see now 'handling charges' which in some cases are 3 times the price of the product I purchased. I wonder if there is a real background for all of them or if Brexit is used as an excuse to milk some customers…

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

People on here seem to have received multifix tool posts from Germany recently without problem, given there have been threats from France aka "our friends in Europe" to cut off electricity to Jersey in retaliation for no more fishing in our waters, would it really surprise you if these same people were being deliberately vindictive?

[Anonymous]

Posted by Gerhard Novak on 05/05/2021 22:42:26:

I am pretty sure some of the 'import charges' are going direct into the pockets of the forwarding companies, using every excuse to make money.

In that respect, this might be of interest

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

This is the reality of "taking back control" folks.

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Now living in Crete….dont take it to heart about the charges……..

If you can find anyone to deliver to Greece let alone the islands your lucky…..

these parcel firms add a further €20-40 euros extra to the bill for "difficult area's"….

in our nearest big town there's a busy DHL office……

I asked if I could collect direct from the office but the same extra charges still apply……..!!!!!!

Never bother buying anything from France as I hate the place……

that really leaves Germany and frankly they are not interested……

so where poss I buy within Greece……I got a large parcel from N/Greece contaning fork lift chains etc etc….

about 20kgs….it was delivered to Crete in 3 days for the sum of 12euros by a Greek courier firm…..

and the best bit

I was asked to pay the courier the full billing amount in cash….€240…(this is quite normal here)….they dont like credit cards….the firm I used is an international fork lift / plant parts company……!!!!!!!!!!

this has happend on other courier deliveries……

as we dont have a proper address we give the local bar as the delivery address and our mobile number……

(your mb/number is always used as part of your address, here it goes on the next line under your name)…….

we get a phone call from the driver about an hour before del……and we meet at a set time at the bar……SIMPLES….

to add…….

it's almost impossible to buy any machine tools other than from the mainland……

you can add at least 50% to any drill's grinders or circ/saw etc etc….to any UK costed tooling

all steels and alloys and wood are roughly 5 times the price of the mianland….

I know a builder guy that finds it cheaper to get the ferry to Athens, load up his lorry with timber and then get back home…….as an example 40m2 of a decent but pine decking boards was €800……..mmmm……

but I guess thats the price of living on an island in the SUN…..hahaha…..

Return to the UK, to quote …………"I'd rather eat wasps"…you guy's dont know how lucky you are……

Until those at the top are affected personally by the freight charges nothing will happen…..

we are all just a meal ticket and cannon fodder…..for those above……..

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Peter Greene on 06/05/2021 01:55:14:

Posted by Gerhard Novak on 05/05/2021 22:42:26:

I am pretty sure some of the 'import charges' are going direct into the pockets of the forwarding companies, using every excuse to make money.

In that respect, this might be of interest

.

Here is the [refreshingly clear] explanation by Royal Mail : **LINK**

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7208/~/help-with-paying-customs-fees

[quote]

What does the Royal Mail handling fee cover?

Our £8 handling fee reflects the cost of clearing items through customs and presenting them to Border Force.

This includes staff costs, storage, administration and handling of the item through Customs. The fee also covers storage and cash handling processes at the Delivery Office.

[/quote]

The same underlying logic applies to the Courier services

… but they get to choose an appropriate number

No, I don’t know how [if at all] that choice is regulated.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ here, for comparison, is DHL’s explanation:

https://mydhl.express.dhl/content/dam/downloads/gb/en/duties-taxes/duty_and_vat_faq_uk_en.pdf

Edit: __ Happy to be corrected but, I think the ‘handling fee’ is covered by item  20, here:

https://mydhl.express.dhl/content/dam/downloads/gb/en/invoices/duty_vat_invoice_explanatory_notes.pdf.coredownload.pdf

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 06/05/2021 07:52:23

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 06/05/2021 08:01:46

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Posted by fizzy on 05/05/2021 21:02:07:

So far since Brexit we have attempted to ship six boilers (so essentially each a cardboard box 44 x 33 x 32 cm @4kg) into France and Belguim.All were correctly packed etc

Perhaps if you used Amazon? They are pretty efficient

Add 15% to the final price under the old system to cover your new costs

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Ebay seem to be getting things sorted for items coming in to the UK.

I ordered a 400w ER11 brushless spindle, drive & psu from a seller in the Czech Republic last Friday. Estimated delivery was next Wednesday, but it has just been delivered – so less than a week from order to delivery. The Vat collection was handled by Ebay (cost of the unit was around £95 + Vat ) & no other fees applied.

Plastic model specialists Hannats have been documenting their problems exporting to the EU – latest cause of items being returned was apparently due to items transiting France to Austria & Italy having the Vat demanded by the French, with no way for the Austrian or Italian customers to claim back against the French.

The French appear to be operating in a very hostile way – presumably because they are French and they can.

Nigel B.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by fizzy on 05/05/2021 21:02:07:

. The other made it to Belgium but was immedtately returned with a sticker on it saying recipient refused to pay import duty – recipient was never asked to pay duty. And the icing on the cake – UPS today billed me for £112 import tax from Belguim to the UK. Thats for failing to deliver my very own boiler and returning it to me.

I confess that I did that to a continental quilt set sent as a wedding present to us from Germany back in 75, HM customs wanted £30 import duty, which was simply unaffordable back then.

[Bob WorsleyParticipant @bobworsley31976]

Possibly the important word here is TO.

I have bought a couple of books from the EU recently and arrived no problems, no real delay.

I wonder if the EU really are being awkward, could try holding the import of French and German cars to see what response that results in?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bob Worsley on 06/05/2021 09:42:01:

Possibly the important word here is TO.

[…]

.

Well it was, when Fizzy started the thread … but it quickly slipped into reverse

MichaelG.

[Paul MParticipant @paulm98238]

I recently used a website that had a British contact address to purchase some items. To my surprise I found that the company then shipped from Holland. The first attempt by DPD failed to leave Holland and was returned. The second time UPS delivered the item. A week ago I had a letter from UPS billing me for VAT and other unknown costs. On a closer look at my original invoice I noticed no VAT had been charged by the company at the time of ordering.

So wherever you purchase goods, even if the website shows a UK contact address, make sure they are being shipped from within the UK and include VAT, otherwise if from the EU expect a bill later on down the line.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

My friend in Texas bought a rare car part on UK ebay, seller would not post it to USA but sent to me instead.

I posted it Royal Mail , 6 days later , arrived in Texas., no problems.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

I bought a Sunnen precision bore gauge from the UK. It was sent via UPS courier service. The package weighed 12 kg and was 148 pounds, but did arrive on a tuesday and was sent on thurday. So I was very happy to recieve the item so fast, considering the covid etc.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 06/05/2021 09:49:34:

Posted by Bob Worsley on 06/05/2021 09:42:01:

Possibly the important word here is TO.

[…]

.

Well it was, when Fizzy started the thread … but it quickly slipped into reverse

MichaelG.

Yes, your DHL link is for UK receiving More seriously I wonder what the Belgian DHL sheet says.

To use Amazon and it's system Fizzy would have to use their warehousing and for made to order stuff that might be awkward.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

A few years ago I mailed a couple of castings to myself, in the UK, from Australia, had been there on holiday and the castings would have put my baggage seriously overweight. Don’t ask why I bought castings in Australia, the wife gave me enough grief over it. The castings arrived at the Gatwick freight handling centre and couldn’t be released until I had paid the admin fees and VAT on the items, I was not best pleased having to pay VAT on my own possessions. In respect of the problems and charges being levied on parcel traffic to and from the Continent, it seems to reflect the situation that has happened with parcel traffic to and from the USA for many years, although I think that the French have chosen to be particularly vindictive in their approach. but that is the French, they will never be any different towards the UK, It has always struck me as strange that if we order anything from China then for these items the British Postal Authorities mostly allow them in without any charges required. Is there some sort of agreement with China that if they fill out the customs declaration on parcels and say they item is only worth 5 dollars, irrespective of its true cost, then it is automatically allowed in. I think we will al have to accept that trading with the EU countries should be the choice of last resort. Dave W. 🤔

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Dave Halford on 06/05/2021 10:15:01:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 06/05/2021 09:49:34:

Posted by Bob Worsley on 06/05/2021 09:42:01:

Possibly the important word here is TO.

[…]

.

Well it was, when Fizzy started the thread … but it quickly slipped into reverse

MichaelG.

Yes, your DHL link is for UK receiving More seriously I wonder what the Belgian DHL sheet says.

[…]

.

Tut, tut, Dave … My post was a response to others, made after reverse had been engaged

MichaelG.

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

Posted by mgnbuk on 06/05/2021 09:30:16:

..

Plastic model specialists Hannats have been documenting their problems exporting to the EU – latest cause of items being returned was apparently due to items transiting France to Austria & Italy having the Vat demanded by the French, with no way for the Austrian or Italian customers to claim back against the French.

..

Nigel B.

Why would the Italian and Austrian customers expect to reclaim the VAT?

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Gerhard Novak on 05/05/2021 22:42:26:

I am pretty sure some of the 'import charges' are going direct into the pockets of the forwarding companies, using every excuse to make money. I also can see now 'handling charges' which in some cases are 3 times the price of the product I purchased. I wonder if there is a real background for all of them or if Brexit is used as an excuse to milk some customers…

And any of us who lived through decimalisation all knew they were gonna do that anyway, didn't we?

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Why would the Italian and Austrian customers expect to reclaim the VAT?

Vat is payable by the customer in their home country – the French should not be charging it on goods in transit where France is not the destination country.

As customers should not be charged Vat twice, and as it is due to be paid in their country of residence on delivery, they should be able to reclaim the Vat incorrectly collected by the French after paying in their own country – but there is apparently no mechanism to do this.

While the example of importing from the EU I gave was not directly analogous to Fizzie's situation as an exporter, it does illustrate that the situation is changing – earlier this year most European Ebay sellers I was looking at would not sell to the UK at all. Now they will, my item delivery time was little different to before & there were no additional hoops to jump through. The way Ebay itemises Vat and a general increase in prices for Chinese products by the amount of the Vat since January suggests that the Treasury will benefit for the Vat collection changes (which I appreciate are a separate issue to the import/export situation).

In time, I would expect that the exporting situation for smaller exporters will change as well . If Fizzie were to send his boilers now (and would fully understand why he would be reluctant to do so ! ), the situation may well be different to a couple of months ago. In a couple of months time it will probably be different again – we are in a bit of a learning period at the moment that is proving a bit more difficult than some would have expected. Plus there is the apparent desire of some "over there" to be especially awkward at present to show us the error of our impertinet decision to leave the EU.

At work we send 4 or 5 full truck loads of product to Poland monthly + another to Norway & that continues largely as before – more paperwork up front, but otherwise no delays.

Nigel B.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Pete. on 06/05/2021 00:52:23:

… given there have been threats from France aka "our friends in Europe" to cut off electricity to Jersey in retaliation for no more fishing in our waters, would it really surprise you if these same people were being deliberately vindictive?

Not in the slightest. This is entirely predictable. President de Gaulle once justified his difficult international relationships by explaining 'Countries don't have friends, countries have interests'. He's right!

The UK left the EU to pursue an independent economic future and are now are free to proceed in the UK's best interest. Great idea, but double edged! The EU as a whole, and all the individual member nations, are also free to pursue their interests. After Brexit they have no obligation to the UK. Potentially everything is up for grabs, and everything can be renegotiated.

Leaving the EU was the easy bit; the hard part is what happens next. Ideally, everyone benefits quickly from marvellous trade-deals, more likely we get poorer during transition whilst a mass of difficult minor disputes are disentangled, and in the worst case violence erupts.

State sponsored violence is why Jersey is currently 'ours', whatever 'ours' means! Jersey is 120 miles from the UK and only 14 miles from Normandy. It's the only part of Normandy retained by the royal famil after King John's military campaign against Philip II failed 1204. (King John is the baddy in both Robin Hood and the Magna Carta).

Jersey was successfully defended against French invasions in 1406 and 1791, but not against the Germans in 1940. The latter only left after Germany as a whole surrendered in 1945. Jersey isn't technically part of the United Kingdom and has the power of self-determination. At the moment 32.7% of the population are British.

Walk a mile in the other guys shoes! If you were a French fisherman, how sympathetic would you be to the idea the sea around Jersey is British, rather than the Normandy coastline being French? And if you were a French politician, how much would you upset French voters by supporting UK government rather than French fishermen? How does it play elsewhere around the world? Germany is unlikely to be concerned about fish, but in the event of a dispute between the UK and an EU member, they will support the EU. Who would the Americans support given their concern about the Irish Border? Some sort of give and take deal has to be negotiated, ideally before spilt blood makes the situation really emotional.

We live in interesting times!

Dave

[Author]

Posts