Sherline

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I was rather encouraged by these videos …

**LINK**

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7XQWCStTZI&ebc=ANyPxKrlLrsToDeSqvZNMIinFYE6grgA_sHRshEhQHRyR91kty0EpadPswm7RI6r2dgAMnPCz1uXCw2QcPMpsACMrKjHAPAaMg

**LINK**

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YKa_fvlcso4

… and impressed by the load carrying capability of that little rotary table

**LINK**

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

… using their own products in production.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

You probably know from my regular musings that I have a Sherline Cnc lathe long bed and a universal cnc sherline mill, and I can't resist reading any posts about them.

I don't use them as much as I should do, because they are dead accurate, if I take the time to set it up, I can guarantee parts to within .01 mm shafts and external features, but on my bigger machines, (perhaps due to the way I treat them!) it's more like .05 and i'm happy with that mostly but it always amazes me to see their capabilities.

Quick note on the cnc rotary table, I have that too and it's built to a quality not seen on the other hobby indexers. 

You may notice that on the demonstrations the speed is always up to the top and with carbide tooling because it tends to struggle on lower speeds on high speed steel, it does have a compensation feature on it's board but it's not enough to overcome large cuts, cuts that I could get away with on my bigger lathe, like 4mm roughing stainless steel.

They could probably do with upping their game on the motor side, it's only 1/5hp but you can get a brushless 500W motor with an ER fitting head for about £100 with variable speed. (Not to act as the spindle but simply to hold the pulleys where the other motor would normally go)The other features of the sherline machines are nigh on flawless that being said.

The older Australian sherline machines are quite rare but they were actually equipped with a small induction motor with a single/double speed settings on the pulleys, and are probably better off sticking with them. C;early the original designer, now long gone I think, intended it to give decent power output for a small machine. 

The variable speed feature on the brushed standard motor gives the illusion of being able to handle larger diameters with less power, which is a nonsense to say that you could part off a 1" steel bar with 200rpm on the wee motor. Doesn't work. not unless you machined a different pulley set. 

I would also praise them on the amount of literature they offer to help people understand what to do, far beyond what other machine makers are willing to offer. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 28/04/2017 17:50:34

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> … and impressed by the load carrying capability of that little rotary table

Well I can't argue with that!

Neil

[Michael Freeman 4Participant @michaelfreeman4]

MW, Like you I have a Sherline CNC Mill and Lathe just recently bought. I wonder what software you are using for both CAD and CAM?

Mike

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Sherlines are nice machines and they seem to punch well above their weight considering their small size.

It's frankly unbelievable that their presence in the UK and Europe is almost non existent! The market over here is very strong.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Michael;

I, too, have a Sherline CNC lathe and mill. They were purchased for a potential house downsizing (moving to a smaller place), but that's been put on hold because of COVID, so not used as much (yet) as I had originally planned.

I've got bigger CNC mills, and use the same software. I've actually got 2 sets of software; I use Linux for work from home and one of my desktops, I also use Apple computers for software development. So, saying that:

On Linux, CamBam, and QCad, CamBam can do some lathe CAM, which has worked well with the Sherline lathe.

On Windows (which probably has not been booted in 6 months) Alibre Atom3D, and, if I remember the name correctly, Meshcam.

I just never turn on the windows computer, the Linux one is booted 24/7, so I use the 2D CAD/CAM system 100% of the time. I have tried (successfully) to run Windows in a virtual machine under Linux; it worked, but is slow and not as responsive as I'd have liked. The 2D CAD setup does things well enough for the parts I'm making.

Hope some of the above helps! John

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hollowpoint on 22/04/2021 12:01:44:

Sherlines are nice machines and they seem to punch well above their weight considering their small size.

It's frankly unbelievable that their presence in the UK and Europe is almost non existent! The market over here is very strong.

Quite well-known in the UK with a good reputation, and there's a dealer too. Unfortunately the machines are Price on Application, which often signals high cost and long delays over here.

As a general rule importing anything from the USA is expensive and what's delightfully affordable in New York causes British purchasers to blow a gasket when they see the price over here. Quite a good way of buying american gear is to take a holiday in the US and bring it back as hand-luggage.

Another problem might be more competition. Europeans have reasonable access to second-hand watchmaking lathes and – for serious players – Cowells can be bought new. Also Taig/Peatol and Chinese micro-lathes.

Perhaps the biggest problem is UK lathe buyers have bigger machines for general work and don't have room for a little one as well. Many of us have cramped workshops because land is so expensive.

Whatever the reason, it's not because Sherline kit is considered unreliable or inaccurate. Just relatively pricey, small, and a little awkward to buy. I think of buying a Sherline once or twice a year because my other machines make intricate work harder than it should be. Don't do enough delicate turning to justify it though. Maybe one day…

Dave

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Dave – if you (or anyone else) wants to see what can be done on Sherline equipment, have a look at:

Chris and his Kozo Shay build

over at modelnginemaker.com This fellow hails from NY state in the USA, and makes more in a day than many of us make in a year.

I made an "old Shay" from Kozo Hiraoka's plans; mainly on an Eco Compact-8, so when I followed along on how he made the "new Shay" on Sherline equipment (including cutting gears from brass) needless to say, I was both humbles and impressed.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I posted a few other links to Chris's work a month or so ago when I suggested a Sherline to another member

Have a look through these threads to see what can be done on Sherline machines

Steam Shovel

Log Hauler

Mann Wagon,

UK supplier is Millhill Supplies

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Unfortunately the machines are Price on Application

MillHill Supplies have Sherline prices on their website, Dave – machines & accessories. Not clear from the list if the prices are Vat inclusive or not – the difference between "just expensive" and "how much !".

Mrs B got me a second hand Sherline deluxe long bed lathe and a lot of accessories for my 40th birthday – it has not had a lot of use since it came to me & I should make the effort to use to more often. I did make the (stainless) valves & (bronze) valve guides for a Westbury Seal (the kit for that was my birthday present to myself that year) on it without any dramas – though turning longer items gets a bit tedious with a 20TPI leadscrew & the accessories included didn't include the "power feed" kit.

Nigel B.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by mgnbuk on 22/04/2021 15:54:30:

Unfortunately the machines are Price on Application

MillHill Supplies have Sherline prices on their website, Dave – machines & accessories. Not clear from the list if the prices are Vat inclusive or not – the difference between "just expensive" and "how much !".

…

Nigel B.

Quite right Nigel, don't know how I missed it. Here it is.

Anyway, assuming the UK price includes tax, I see the 8" model costing $600 in the US costs £770 here. Today the exchange rate is $1 = £0.72, so £770 is $1070. This is a big gap – the Sherline would be an excellent buy at £432 if the exchange rate was simply applied to the US price. Sadly, it doesn't work that way.

Gap is even worse if the UK VAT has to be paid too. Then the UK buyer has to find the US equivalent of $1284, over twice what the lathe costs in the US. Ouch.

This is why I suggested mixing business with pleasure by buying a Sherline whilst enjoying a US holiday and carrying it back personally. Not sure that's still possible now airport security has been ramped up! Privately importing from the US is also possible, but I'd be twitchy about unexpected import duty, VAT and collection charges on arrival. Getting the paperwork wrong could result in a nasty financial shock! Millhill's prices cover import costs and they provide UK consumer protection. If I was buying, I'd use them.

Dave

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/04/2021 14:12:27:

Posted by Hollowpoint on 22/04/2021 12:01:44:

Sherlines are nice machines and they seem to punch well above their weight considering their small size.

It's frankly unbelievable that their presence in the UK and Europe is almost non existent! The market over here is very strong.

Quite well-known in the UK with a good reputation, and there's a dealer too. Unfortunately the machines are Price on Application, which often signals high cost and long delays over here.

As a general rule importing anything from the USA is expensive and what's delightfully affordable in New York causes British purchasers to blow a gasket when they see the price over here. Quite a good way of buying american gear is to take a holiday in the US and bring it back as hand-luggage.

Another problem might be more competition. Europeans have reasonable access to second-hand watchmaking lathes and – for serious players – Cowells can be bought new. Also Taig/Peatol and Chinese micro-lathes.

Perhaps the biggest problem is UK lathe buyers have bigger machines for general work and don't have room for a little one as well. Many of us have cramped workshops because land is so expensive.

Whatever the reason, it's not because Sherline kit is considered unreliable or inaccurate. Just relatively pricey, small, and a little awkward to buy. I think of buying a Sherline once or twice a year because my other machines make intricate work harder than it should be. Don't do enough delicate turning to justify it though. Maybe one day…

Dave

Though I am aware of Millhill, Well known is not words I would use to describe them.

It's basically one obscure website with no online shop to pretty much serve the whole of Europe? A job that IMO they don't do particularly well. I emailed them about 6 months ago and I am still waiting for a reply. 🙄 I mean they don't even advertise on forums or in the magazines. I imagine most people have no idea who Millhill are or even that they exist.

It may seem a little brutal of me but IMO Sherline should dump Millhill and partner up with some of the bigger boys, Chronos, Warco, Arceuro, Axminster etc to really get their products out there. I am convinced Sherline have the products that fill a gap in the market over here. I collet micro lathes and the choices available new are basically a cheap Chinese c0 an overpriced Proxxon or a very expensive Cowells. Everything else secondhand (Emco) commands a premium because of demand and the watchmakers stuff isn't really suitable for model engineering.

Second to that some of their range of chucks would fly off the shelves over here. A very nice quality American made precision chuck for example costs about $100 which is a bit of a bargain when compared with similar offerings over here which are crudely made usually in China yet cost almost as much?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I would have hoped anyone looking at Sherline's website with the intent to buy would just click on "dealers" to find where they can get one and see Millhill listed.

Millhill are not teh only outlet in Europe and I expect the French source will do better now post Brexit

Problem really is their machines are not CE compliant so would need to invest to get them to pass. Don't know if small sales let them get away with it.

Edited By JasonB on 23/04/2021 09:56:25

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hollowpoint on 23/04/2021 09:22:55:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/04/2021 14:12:27:

Posted by Hollowpoint on 22/04/2021 12:01:44:

Sherlines are nice machines and they seem to punch well above their weight considering their small size.

It's frankly unbelievable that their presence in the UK and Europe is almost non existent! The market over here is very strong.

Quite well-known in the UK with a good reputation, and there's a dealer too. …

Dave

Though I am aware of Millhill, Well known is not words I would use to describe them.

It's basically one obscure website with no online shop to pretty much serve the whole of Europe? …

I said Sherline are well-known in the UK, not the dealer!

Maybe more would sell in Europe if they were marketed better, maybe not. There must be a danger Sherline sales are lost here because beginners see alternatives widely advertised while Sherline gear is harder to find. It's what I meant by Sherline in the UK being 'a little awkward to buy'.

My feeling though is it's not Sherline's qualities or lack of advertising that make them relatively scarce over here, it's the combination of price point and a relatively limited market for that size of lathe. If an importer could get the UK price down to £600 or less, I'm sure more would sell, but I doubt it would be a flood. Is it profitable?

Sherline's policy may be relevant too: their advice to prospective new dealers is: 'Word-of-mouth is still the largest source of new Sherline customers', and, perhaps more off-putting to potential trading partners, 'Please note that we do not accept wholesale accounts.' (Their emphasis.) I'm wary of criticising commercial arrangements because without seeing the Business Plan, it's impossible to know if they've got it right or not. Could be Sherline and their UK dealer have already optimised profitability, maybe they should think again. Ketan Swali would have a clearer understanding of the commercial considerations than me! I just know they're not always easy.

I'd be delighted if Sherline were easier and cheaper to buy in the UK. I've thought of buying one several times, but it's a fair amount of money to spend on a scale of work I rarely do.

Dave

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Millhill Supplies used to advertise regularly in ME and MEW when it was owned by Tony Crabbe and had a shop in Crowmarsh near Wallingford. Tony sold up when he retired and his well chosen range of engineering items was dropped and the new owner seems to have just kept the Sherline franchise and also supplies other lathe spares from his original business.I would imagine that most sherline sales are from people who already know of the machine or word of mouth recommendation. The Sherline machines ought to be promoted a bit more enthusiastically although the price probably does limit them to customers who really want one. It looks like Millhill didn’t advertise in MEW but they are in old issues of ME.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 23/04/2021 15:27:59

[Michael Freeman 4Participant @michaelfreeman4]

My experience with the purchase of Sherline Lathe and Mill was direct with Sherline USA.

I also have an Axminster RF25 which I converted to CNC via a package from Long in China. I use Mach3 and Alibre for that mill and did think at first I would sell it to help fund the Sherline purchase. However I think it serves a different type of work so not its going to stay.

I was helped in my purchase by a 20% discount by Karl from Sherline. That helped to pay the dreaded vat. The speed of delivery was excellent and most importantly backup help and advice when setting up has been exceptional. With email I get answers to query's the same day or two. Karl is a very knowledgeable man and I could not wish for better support.

One area where I have had to spend a lot of education is with using the software for running the machines. Namely MASSO. I have also converted ish to Fusion 360 as its free to non commercial people (for how long I don't know?) and again its more learning.

So overall I am extremely pleased with both product and support. It will also make me a better CNC 'engineer'

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/04/2021 14:12:27:

Posted by Hollowpoint on 22/04/2021 12:01:44:

Sherlines are nice machines and they seem to punch well above their weight considering their small size.

It's frankly unbelievable that their presence in the UK and Europe is almost non existent! The market over here is very strong.

Quite well-known in the UK with a good reputation, and there's a dealer too. Unfortunately the machines are Price on Application, which often signals high cost and long delays over here.

As a general rule importing anything from the USA is expensive and what's delightfully affordable in New York causes British purchasers to blow a gasket when they see the price over here. Quite a good way of buying american gear is to take a holiday in the US and bring it back as hand-luggage.

Another problem might be more competition. Europeans have reasonable access to second-hand watchmaking lathes and – for serious players – Cowells can be bought new. Also Taig/Peatol and Chinese micro-lathes.

Perhaps the biggest problem is UK lathe buyers have bigger machines for general work and don't have room for a little one as well. Many of us have cramped workshops because land is so expensive.

Whatever the reason, it's not because Sherline kit is considered unreliable or inaccurate. Just relatively pricey, small, and a little awkward to buy. I think of buying a Sherline once or twice a year because my other machines make intricate work harder than it should be. Don't do enough delicate turning to justify it though. Maybe one day…

Dave

Dave,

I have manual Sherline lathe and mill, both bought from Mill Hill Supplies of Basildon Essex (Kevin). MH are the main UK importers. I'm a novice engineer but researched long and hard to find machines that are compact and competent – which as I mostly machine brass and aluminium they are.

Importing from the USA is not actually a hassle nor does it take a long time. Simply contact DPP engineering in California – Sherline's main global exporter. You can get them at dpp@conaco.com. They will then list a part on eBay where you can purchase it using the eBay international delivery system. This reduces shipping costs because DPP ship it to eBay in the USA who ship it with containerload of stuff to the UK, from where it is delivered to you. The price on eBay estimates all taxes which are confirmed on purchase. Nice and simple.

DPP tend to under promise on delivery, bought DRO for both machines and they arrived within 7-10 days. Bought a rotary table with similar experience.

People often misunderstand US pricing; the price on the label, online or in shops, is without tax. Tax varies by state so this has become the normal way to quote. So the goods are shipped free of US tax, but of course you pay import duties and VAT etc in the UK. eBay manages this all seamlessly.

Stuart

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

Some observations on pro's and cons of Shelines:

Pro's

1/ They are very accurate.

2/ The are easy to pick up and pack away. i have predrilled and tapped bolt holes in my steel surfaced workbench; 4 screws and a hex key and they are free.

3/There are plenty of Sherline extras.

4/ They have plenty of power for Brass and Aluminium.

Cons

1/ They are expensive

2/ Whilst you can get metric versions, the bolts that hold them together and all fixings are imperial. Can be irritating!

3/ They can cut steel but it takes time.

4/ They are small.

5/ The shafts are MT1 – try buying 3rd party boring heads etc for MT1 – you have to go the Sherline rout.

Depends on what you want them for I guess, but I've never found a problem with getting bits for them.

Stuart

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

PPS

I'm not on commission – Sherlines are not for everyone but is someone avoids them because they are seen as difficult to get hold of, I think that's a pity.

So one final point, just went online and checked Mill Hill supplies, they have full current pricelist. From experience their prices are usually very similar to the 'landed' cost of buying from DPP but if mill hill don't have an item in stock, they may take a month or so until they get it. this is when I've gone to DPP/eBay because it really is quick.

Both Kevin and DPP are very helpful.

Stuart

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

Sherline lathes & accessories have really gone up in price in the last 2 years alone, Millhill Supplies price list on Sherline you must add on VAT + postage. I bought my Sherline long bed lathe package & accessories from Millhill in March 2019. Here's what I paid just 2 years ago & the price now, everything has gone up around 50% in that time.

2019 2021

4410A Lathe Package £855 inc VAT. £1284 inc VAT

1270 Compound slide £126 inc VAT. £189 inc VAT.

1030 4 jaw indi Chuck 3.1" £135.99 inc VAT. £204 inc VAT.

1076 4 Jay S/C Chuck 3.1" £166.24 inc VAT. £249.48 inc VAT.

Just a sample of what I bought from Millhill in 2019, all the other accessories sherline list have gone up around 50% across the range here in the UK.

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

Posted by Martin Hamilton 1 on 25/04/2021 14:13:00:

Sherline lathes & accessories have really gone up in price in the last 2 years alone, Millhill Supplies price list on Sherline you must add on VAT + postage. I bought my Sherline long bed lathe package & accessories from Millhill in March 2019. Here's what I paid just 2 years ago & the price now, everything has gone up around 50% in that time.

2019 2021

4410A Lathe Package £855 inc VAT. £1284 inc VAT

1270 Compound slide £126 inc VAT. £189 inc VAT.

1030 4 jaw indi Chuck 3.1" £135.99 inc VAT. £204 inc VAT.

1076 4 Jay S/C Chuck 3.1" £166.24 inc VAT. £249.48 inc VAT.

Just a sample of what I bought from Millhill in 2019, all the other accessories sherline list have gone up around 50% across the range here in the UK.

Martin,

I spoke to Kevin at Mill Hill late last year and learnt that their policy is to buy in stock then keep prices stable until the next stock purchase, when prevailing exchange rates will impact the price.

Looking at the post Brexit exchange rates we saw the pound falling significantly from about $1.50 early 2016 to $1.30 after the referendum. There was some recovery and by early 2018 it had recovered to $1.45 but slid again through the year to $1.25 by December hovering around this level until a recovery as a 'deal' looked likely. Now about $1.35

Its quite possible that your purchase was of stock bought early 2018, and now were looking at stock bought late last year. A large chunk of the price change.

Looking up item 1030 – the 4 jaw chuck – on eBay the delivered price – tax and postage paid – is estimated at about $225 – about £160 or 26% price hike. Its part of the reason that I check eBay imports from the US.

Yup – they have gone up in price but the financial analyst in me (my former occupation!) would love to see what has happened to mini mill prices. Might do that.

Stuart

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

ps – I believe Millhill prices are inclusive of VAT – but not 100% certain so anyone looking to buy please check.

Stuart

[Author]

Posts