Shell Petrol Can Puzzle

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

I recently inherited this petrol can from an old friend, and it puzzles me. I've never seen one like it and it's too late to ask him what it is for.

It is a perfectly ordinary Shell can, with the usual embossed lettering and a cast brass cap lettered SHELL MEX. The paint seems to have been black, with a gold Shell emblem on the side. Where it gets puzzling is that there is a cylindrical steel vessel, 3" in diameter and 10½" deep, let into it and soft soldered in place. There is a hint of what may be oil toward the bottom of the inside.

The cylinder gives every impression of being machine made, which I emphasise because the handle is an obvious home-made replacement of brass, soft soldered in place.

So the puzzle is, what was the purpose of this modification, and was it done by Shell? Was it to hold a can of 2-stroke oil? If so, why wouldn't you just mix it straight in with the petrol? Was there a standard Shell 2-stroke oil can which would fit? And why would you want to reduce the capacity of a 2 gallon can to 1 gallon, 2 quarts, 1 pint and 2½ gills? (I stuck that in for the traditionalists. Imperial gallons of course.)

Over to you for suggestions,

George

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

[Alan Johnson 7Participant @alanjohnson7]

Vickers Machinegun used a can much like yours. I have a WWII example, but not quite the same – no vertical tube.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Was there a separate cylinder (now missing) that fitted the cavity and held (4 stroke) engine oil for top-ups?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Was it to stand a funnel in? Though the old glass 2-stroke bottle is a probability

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Spare petrol and a bottle of beer ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Pity you don't have the missing bit as they seem to fetch a good price

If you search "shell Duo" taken from that description there are plenty of photos

Edited By JasonB on 22/09/2019 08:20:33

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Out of curiousity whats the can date, look at the base and you will see a number.

Martin P

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I somehow doubt it would be for two stroke oil – at 40:1 (or even 25:1) it would hold enough oil for a lot of refills and would also need some means of measurement to get the correct ratio – so I suspect it was for normal engine oil. Also, were there many two stroke cars around, even, back then? Could be wrong, of course…. Thoughts or evidence?

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by not done it yet on 22/09/2019 09:16:38:

…Also, were there many two stroke cars around, even, back then? Could be wrong, of course…. Thoughts or evidence?

Perhaps depends on date, the Valveless comes immediately to mind in the pre-WW1 era. Could their rarity make it necessary for motorists to carry a larger amount of two-stroke oil in case they come to a petrol station that didn't sell it. I remember having to carry a bottle of two stroke for my bike back in the 70s because not all garages carried it.

Brian

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

< deleted >

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/09/2019 09:32:57

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

not done it yet There weren't many two stroke cars about but there were a lot of motorbikes and Villiers recomended 1/2 pint oil to 1 gallon of petrol

Roy

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by roy entwistle on 22/09/2019 09:43:25:

not done it yet There weren't many two stroke cars about but there were a lot of motorbikes and Villiers recomended 1/2 pint oil to 1 gallon of petrol

Roy

Yes, Roy, but not many motorcyclists would carry around a 2 gallon can of reserve fuel? Stored at home would not necessitate two containers in the one package? I would have thought this combination was for when cars consumed rather more engine oil, than modern engines, and the driver carried a reserve of petrol strapped somewhere on the body work?

I just don’t think they made cans as ‘gimmicks’ back then, so it would have had a sound practical use – unless it was usual for motorists to buy oil dispensed in bulk from a petrol station. Living on a farm, it was usual to have bulk tanks for TVO, cans of petrol (for starting engines from cold) and engine oil in larger containers (gallon tins and 5 gallon drums, commonly). Villagers or townies may have had different customs/habits.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Puzzle solved. It makes such a difference when you know the right words to make a search! Thank you everybody for your suggestions and information. All I have seen on the base so far is flaky rust and cobwebs – I'll look for a date code when I'm next in the workshop.

I doubt I'll be making a replica can, so while I save up for a real one for only £299.99 (may have been repainted in the past!) I'll look for a beer bottle to fit. Thanks for the suggestion, Speedy. At present I'm saving up for this collectible book about gas engines: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-1907-Russian-Empire-book-Gas-oil-other-internal-combustion-engines/183896162971?hash=item2ad110c29b:g:2aAAAOSwi05dNzY0 I'm just glad it isn't a rare first edition.

George

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

As most people would have mixed their two-stroke at the pump, the oil is probably for general lubrication?

Neil

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

Posted by 34046 on 22/09/2019 10:22:42:

Worth keeping and sympathetically restoring.

Collectable item from the 1930's known as a Shell Duo.

There is one on ebay at £695 with plenty of detailed pics of the oil can

Bill

Edited By 34046 on 22/09/2019 10:23:03

There's many items for sale on E-bay at what seems silly prices to some people. Will that petrol can sell at that price?

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2019 19:05:24:

As most people would have mixed their two-stroke at the pump, the oil is probably for general lubrication?

Neil

I agree, Neil. Since it was common at one time to carry a petrol can strapped to the running board, I'm wondering if the 'duo' can was a neat way of carrying spare oil and petrol in one package. Certainly the large rounded flange on the oil cans I see in pictures would have discouraged them from rattling about while on the move.

At one time petrol was delivered to the customer in 2 gallon cans, before petrol pumps became common. Dad used to tell tales of delivering full cans on his bike and returning with the empties – that would have been in the early-to-mid 1920s at a guess. I presume the 3/- price embossed in the top of the can was the deposit, much like the 3d deposit on lemonade bottles when I was a nip.

I looked for a date code on the rusty bottom of my can, but it's pretty ugly under there. Rather than having to scrape the whole thing, can anybody suggest where I should look first? The panel is corrugated rather than flat.

George

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I remember buying 2 stroke oil separately, as it was cheaper, then putting in measured amount in to tank before filling with a gallon of petrol, about 1s- 10p a gallon. Filling my James scooter.

David

[GrottoParticipant @grotto]

I seem to recall my Seagull outboard ran 6-1 or 8-1.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by Georgineer on 22/09/2019 23:42:16:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2019 19:05:24:

I looked for a date code on the rusty bottom of my can, but it's pretty ugly under there. Rather than having to scrape the whole thing, can anybody suggest where I should look first? The panel is corrugated rather than flat.

George

The date code will be two digits roughly in the middle of the base.

Martin P

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, back in my early motorcycling days I had a number of 2 stroke machines, 250cc Excelsior Talisman Twin anyone? In those far off days mixing petroil was a bit of a minefield, one of the worst culprits was the forecourt mixing pumps, set mix ratio then hand pump the required quantity into your tank, simples, except when some lazy person omits to fill the 2 stroke oil tank inside it! followed by a continuous cavalcade of bikes & scooters being taken to repair shops seized solid. Having been warned of this disaster by a friend who was a motorcycle mechanic I resolved to take matters into my own hands, run fuel down to reserve setting, add measured amount of oil & measured amount of petrol, agitate bike to give fuel a good swish round, keep a small graduated bottle of oil for everyday use on the bike, bigger one for longer range expeditions, bit of a faff but never ever got caught out. All made a nonsense by nancy boy modern machines with separate 2 stroke oil tanks & variable ratio pumps Bah Humbug.

Bob H

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by martin perman on 23/09/2019 08:48:44:

Posted by Georgineer on 22/09/2019 23:42:16:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2019 19:05:24:

I looked for a date code on the rusty bottom of my can, but it's pretty ugly under there. Rather than having to scrape the whole thing, can anybody suggest where I should look first? The panel is corrugated rather than flat.

George

The date code will be two digits roughly in the middle of the base.

Martin P

Thanks Martin. I scratched around the middle and found a circular stamping with 'SM Co' at the top, 'London' at the bottom, '1' on the left and '32' on the right, which I interpret as January 1932.

I also investigated another can I inherited and found the date code for September 1934. All I need to do now is work out what to do with a gallon of petrol of indeterminate age, probably leaded, which it contains.

Another question – the seals in the brass caps look like leather. Would that be right?

George

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