Shed insulation

[bill MaskellParticipant @billmaskell10781]

Having purchased a shed from the same company as David Clark, excellent service can recomend them, I am now looking to insulate said shed.

  Any advice gratefully received.  What have you done David? This shed will be used all year round.

  I am totally new to this model engineering, so gradually building up equipment, however, cost  (as usual ) and durability are a main priority.

  This magazine and site are great,  I have learnt a great deal just reading other peoples postings.

  Regards to all, Bill . 

[bill MaskellParticipant @billmaskell10781]

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Bill

First thing to do is put a floor over the floor.

I used MDF but chipboard or plywood would be stronger.

I dropped a grinder on mine before covering the floor and it went through the wood.

It did land cornerwise.

regards david

[John LadlowParticipant @johnladlow78959]

I have a wooden shed as a workshop and insulated it by nailing hardboard  to the inside of the frame members (roof as well) with 1 inch thick polystyrene sheet underneath between the frames.

It works well and just needs a small  low watage background heater to keep the condensation awayin the winter.

John

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

And make a lattice type Duckboard to stand on, insulates yer feet from the cold AND swarf.

 

   Said swarf is easier to sweep up if it HASN’T been trampled and saves tears before bedtime on the bottom of yer shoes!

 

    Regards   Ian.

 

     And DON’T use a gas heater.

Edited By Circlip on 07/08/2009 12:20:50

[Peter GainParticipant @petergain89847]

Hi Bill,

The best course of action is to buy “Workshop Construction”, by Jim Forrest & Peter Jennings, Worksop Practice Series No. 23. This is an excellent book which gives all the information needed to enable you to insulate to a high standard.

I used this publication when building my 10′ x 8′ workshop in 2001. The shop has an 800W storage heater (not on “off peak”) controlled by a ‘stat which switches on when the temp drops to 5c. The storage heater outputs warmth such that the inside temp never drops below the preset 5c, ie there is no appreciable lag. This provides sufficient background heat to prevent corrosion problems. The lowest outside temp recorded was -10c. A small fan heater is used to provide comfort heating (approx. 20c) which is rapidly reached. My shop seems similar to John Ludlow’s, except that I used 50mm thick poly insulation.

I used the book recommendations re-vapour barrier & insulation thickness.

Hope that this helps.

Regards,

Peter Gain.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I filled between the studs with 50mm celotex/kingspan type insulation then clad teh inside with 12mm chipboard as I got it for nothing but 12mm ply would do.

 

I have a small convector heater with a built in frost stat to keep the chill off at night, saves any metal getting too cold and the moisture from your breath or cutting fluid steam condensing on the cold surfaces.

 

Jason

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Hi Bill,

Most points seem to have been covered.   As Circlip and David say, don’t forget the floor.

I would recommend “Celotex” insulation, more expensive than polystyrene but much cleaner to use ( cut etc), and has a reflecting layer each side. Also more rigid.  Available in thicknesses from 25 mm upwards. Electric heating is the only one to use, unless you can connect to the house central heating.    Low wattage tubular type with thermostat is good, I have a greenhouse heater with fan, but it’s an old one with a gentle blow, the modern ones are more vigorous.   Being for greenhouse it is more suitable for maintaining background warmth, even just above freezing, and the fan circulates the air and prevents cold damp pockets (in the shed, not your trousers).   If you want to borrow “Workshop Construction” let me know, it shoudn’t cost much to post.

Regards

[bill MaskellParticipant @billmaskell10781]

Thank you all for your help and advice.  I have ordered “Workshop Construction” but appreciate the offer Robbo.  All advice will be taken into consideration.  This really is a most wonderful site.  I must remember to check out those damp pockets!!!!!

  Thanks again to all.  Bill

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

I lived on the Canadian Prairies for a number of years and one learns a lot about keeping warm.  Before glass fibre and foam were available, wood shavings were used.  The elfins didn’t like it because it’s  not fireproof, but you’re in a wooden building with a wooden floor and lots of oil…….   When I was a kid, we used to get shavings from the wood yard down the road, they liked us to take it away for our rabbit’s bedding and such.  Not sure if one can still do that.  Some kind of vapour barrier is essential to stop dust migrating into everything.  The cheapest is a roll of bin bags.

 

Gas heaters produce lots of moisture, but as we’re all engineers here, fitting up a heat exchanger ‘aint too much of a problem, safer too if you’re using solvents.  Working on heavy equipment at 40° below freezing, we’d throw a parachute over the machine and lay a 25 foot length of stove pipe from end to end with a 300,000 btu propane torch in one end, toasty and no fumes.

 

Now, I tend to do things like putting up geodesic domes to work in.  As we like to live in the less than populated areas, like a few miles off Dartmoor, we call them tents and the planning people don’t bother us.  For a given area, a dome is the cheapest to put up and easiest to heat, especially if a layer of greenhouse polly is put on both sides of the frame.  Bonus here is that she who must be obeyed can keep her tomatoes in your greenhouse.  In fact, as far as the council is concerned, it is a greenhouse.  ’Course, the bright lights and screeching of tool against cast may need a little explaining to the neighbours.

 

 Now back to my assigned task.

 

Ian 

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Hi Bill,

No problem.  A word of warning when you get “Workshop Construction”,  don’t read the section on “Security”, or you will knock down your shed and retire indoors and cower under the bedclothes (probably in a foetal position).   It’s that frightening.

All the best

 

[bill MaskellParticipant @billmaskell10781]

Hi Robbo,

Fore-warned is fore-armed, so thanks for that, but will now NOT be able to resist taking a peek.  Aaaaaaaarg!!! Regards, Bill

[PETER AYERSParticipant @peterayers98304]

   Hi Bill

             use a storage heater for back ground warmth but connect it via a plug in time switch then you can take advantage of cheap energy prices

       Petera

[Michael MallesonParticipant @michaelmalleson22793]

Hi Bill. I did my shed in the following way.

 1 Line the whole of the inside with breathable roofing felt using a staple gun.

 2 Line the walls an doors with 4″ roofing felt between the studding using string stapled across ladder-wise to stop it flopping down.

 3 Then line the walls  all over with 12mm sterling/strand board (OSB) or chipboard. This enables you to put in a nail or screw ANYWHERE, and gives extra insulation.

 4 Fix up sheets of 50mm Kingspan foam insulation board into the roof spaces, and onto the doors, screwing through into the purlins with long screws and 3-4″ square “washers”of boarding from your walling offcuts, to stop the screw heads pulling through.

 5 Install a dehumidifier, switch it on and leave it on PERMANENTLY. At first you will have to empty it frequently but as the timber dries out this will become less frequent. I only have to do it twice a week in the wettest weather. Be sure to buy one that is manually adjustable and switches on and off automatically. Once “settled in” it will use very little power.

 5 Install whatever heating you can afford, but ensure that the temperature inside is ALWAYS HIGHER than outside.   

 

    Apart from being warm whilst in the workshop, the “warmer in than out” factor eliminates THE GREAT ENEMY namely,—- CONDENSATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I have had unprotected bright-machined surfaces around for more than 3 years without ANY rust whatsoever, the investment has paid off many times over in saved effort and “rust-tears” !!

 6 Thicker insulation is even better and saves on heating.

 

   Good luck, Mike

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Mike,

Sorry to be a pedant, but in para 2 do you mean 4″ roofing insulation, not felt?   Seems

probable.

Cheers,

Robbo

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Hi  My workshop is double skinned with two inches of loft insulation in the walls and 4 inches in the loft,with a concrete floor ,the concrete was laid on a polythene membrane to stop damp,on top of the concrete a sheet of poly thene  was laid with two layers of 16mm chip board on top, the windows are double glazed ,i used glazing units whose seal had started to leak  but were free. the work shop does not immediately go to the outside there is anothe part of the shed for dirty work,grinding etc so the door to my workshop is several feet from the outside atmosphere,The workshop is only heated when I am using it, but i do not get any condensation or rust,the outer dirty workshop is not insulated .I have another workshop where the floor is insulated by kingspan type insulation which is suitable for installation under concrete floors in modern housing and is capable of supporting high loads if a floor oh 16 mm ply is laid over the insulation,I t is important to insulate the floor cold and damp rise,certain heavy machine  tools may not sit too well on insulation so cut  a hole in the floors and insert hard wood blocks.for walls and ceiling use good quality insulation which has a fire rating,some cheaper insulation is not too fire retardent. inner walls should be 16 mm ply  heavy but is difficult get through and should deter thieves.With insulated sheds block up all holes no matter how small to keep out mice and vermin,they love insulated ceilings .If a electric cable has to pass through a double shed wall, case the cable in a short length of stee tube again to prevent mice attacks, mice and electrics cause fires. by the way two layers of chipboard laid over concrete will support a Colchester master and 30 cwt of mill without affecting performance or precision.

[Michael MallesonParticipant @michaelmalleson22793]

Robbo. Yes you are a pedant, unless you can tell me where to buy 4″ roofing felt !!   Mike.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

If using a metal roof, especially on a larger shop, put a proper insulated ceiling in and insulate under the roof.  Having a cool attic makes a huge difference to heat transfer rate and stops the damp sweating roof effect.  2″ poly board under the metal works fine.  Easiest to do before you put the roof on.  The standard green waterproof chipboad underfloor sheets make excellent internal floors when laid over concrete, well up to machine loads.  Great for bench tops and shelving too being slightly rough so dropped or knocked stuff doesn’t skitter over into the hands of the little man who lives under the bench and steals my tools.  Don’t use the undyed “just the same stuff”.  Surface is loos so its dusty as hell. 

 

Clive 

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