Shaping Machines

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The legendary 'cheap shaper you can pick up for pennies' seems to be as rare as rocking horse poo. I would really like to try an adept No, 1 or 2.

Tooling was pretty cheap two or three years ago and you could get some great bargains

I've noticed an influx of dealers and speculators in the last 12-18 months who have bumped up auction prices across the board, and anything they win they then try to sell on at sillyprices

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Neil,

I have no problem with Mick's reminiscences, and have read all of his articles in MEW where they are usually relevant to the subject, and add to the enjoyment.

Here though, as OP said, they are mostly not relevant and detract from the "substance".

Publishing the article "as written" is of course an editorial decison, and not up to the author.

Phil

[Anonymous]

Bazyle: I've double checked and my ratchet gear is definitely 24 'teeth'; sorry if that doesn't accord with your expectations. At the last count my fingers and toes follow the decimal system, not the duodecimal one.

I will be interested to see how the shaper articles pan out. Currently my shaper is U/S, as the main drive crank casting is broken. It was a dumb design, and also had some casting flaws at the point of maximum stress. I have a repair scheme mapped out, it's just a question of whether it is worthwhile investing the time. And, of course, whether I can get the casting out of the shaper and onto the milling machine table without acquiring a hernia in the process.

Regards,

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/06/2013 11:37:18:

At the last count my fingers and toes follow the decimal system, not the duodecimal one.

Andrew

.

Please permit me a small philosophical digression:

Using fingers [or toes], and ignoring any pedantry about thumbs … Could someone please explain why/how ten of them come to represent the decimal notation of 0 to 9

MichaelG.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Reminds me of a computer joke

"There are only 10 people who understand binary and I'm one of them"

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Michael,

0 to 9 embraces 10 digits (sorry, unintended pun).

David

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The local high school had/had a 10" Alba, must see if it's still there, I don't think it has actually done anything. A dozen or so years ago we had a night class, and the metal work teacher at the time did not know how it worked, and I was going to go back and show him how, but he left before I could. If they don't want it, I could give an offer. Ian S C

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Metalhacker – Andries

Not sure if this is relevant but I have a Perfecto powered shaper which, on occasion, would not feed in one direction. Two things cured it – 1, making sure the plunger was FULLY seated in the slot and 2. turning the hand feed wheel with the ram in motion – the plunger used to stick in the disengaged position. HTH

Rgds

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by David Littlewood on 21/06/2013 12:32:13:

Michael,

0 to 9 embraces 10 digits (sorry, unintended pun).

David

.

David,

That's the popular answer, of course

But a closed fist is a much better representation of Zero

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I believe the concept of zero as a number is comparitively recent and some cultures (Roman?) did not grasp the concept which held back the development of maths for centuries.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Long Division in Roman times must have been a hoot

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

On comparing the pictures on Lathes.co.uk with my Adept I realise it has been modified with a non cast ratchet mechanism and an extension handle giving twice the throw.
Possibly could be worth making a bigger gear. The current 20 with 10tpi leadscrew is a convenient 5 thou per scrape. Does it need a 1 thou feed?

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Stephen,

I have only recently got my Boxford up and running, So still learning, but can already see why they are/were so popular.

Certainly not as quick as a milling machine, but they virtually guarantee a flat even surface, and when using the correct tool to finish, an almost mirror finish, and with the VFD, speed control is a cinch.

After seeing the chips being shot far and wide, I soon fitted a deflector that has them falling into the tray rather than ending up all over the floor.

Those chips do smoke somewhat if a fast/deep cut is taken, and a bit like an ant bite when they make contact with bare skin.

I've got quite a number of projects lined up to take advantage of its ability.

Geoff – Trying to kill *^#%¥ 'Mares Tail' weed! Why can't 'good' plants be as persistent ?

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi all,

I have an Adept 2 hand shaper and was just learning to use it when along came a Drummond. I had been looking for one for a few years. I paid too much for it but it is in fantastic condition and does everything I want it to. I downloaded some of those old, out of copyright, engineering books and was amazed at what was done on shapers.

Even as a shaper tyro I would not part with mine, well, at least the Drummond. Discussions with engineering friends has opened up many ideas and those who originally laughed have become really interested and enthusiastic.

As to Mick's opening article, I found it interesting in that the description of the spinning chuck and the problems with milling it highlighted the value of a shaper, as well as comparing it to a milling machine. When do any of us not tell the 'story' when describing how we did something?

I appreciate that you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time, but I was surprised at another thread that mostly consisted of complaints about the contents of both ME and MEW. I have seen old copies of the original magazine and was even more surprised at the breadth of scope of the content articles. If we are to fabricate and build items of model engineering, is it not a good idea to first learn how to use the machine that is going to be utilised? I occasionally have a look at MEW to see if it suits me better than ME (I make a lot of my own tooling as well) but I still feel that ME caters for my needs overall; I use my great grandfather's lathe (occasionally) and like to think that I use it in the way that he did (though I don't think I will ever be as good!) and produce items in the way that he did.

I am quite aware that my comments will bring forth howls of derision but, when all is said and done, it is my hobby, to be carried out in the way that I want to. I am not an engineer by trade so my relaxation time has no other benefit than to take me away from the stresses of my day job, and to produce whatever takes my fancy with no time limit. I really enjoy 'old boys' stories' as they bring the past to life. I don't mean that Mick is an 'old boy', but his story about what happened and how he used far older technology to overcome his problem both entertained and enlightened.

I am looking forward to the next instalment of Mick's series as I know that I will learn a lot.

Andy (the retro freak)

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Yes, at first site it seems more logical to count up to ten on your fingers and then have elevens in the next column. Thank god we didn't go with that… presumably the sensible rounded up to twelve!

I expect that the origin was to count to 10 on your fingers and then tally a '10' when you started at 1 again. As has been said having a ten with nothing on your fingers wouldn't make sense to people who don't use zero – no fingers would represent what programmers call 'NAN' – 'Not A Number'.

Other cultures use different ways of counting on their fingers/bodies and reach huge numbers!

If you want brain strain, figure out why (most) computers can count to a bigger number of negative integers than positive ones!

Neil

[Anonymous]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 21/06/2013 21:12:47:

If you want brain strain, figure out why (most) computers can count to a bigger number of negative integers than positive ones.

Albeit only by one, and assuming the representation is two's complement – Andrew

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Don't spoil it!

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 21/06/2013 21:12:47:

Yes, at first site it seems more logical to count up to ten on your fingers and then have elevens in the next column. Thank god we didn't go with that… etc.

Neil

Neil,

You might find this interesting

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bazyle on 21/06/2013 16:44:43:

I believe the concept of zero as a number is comparitively recent and some cultures (Roman?) did not grasp the concept which held back the development of maths for centuries.

.

Bazyle [and Neil]

Yes, that's true … and I fully accept that Five and Ten are obvious numbers to use for tallying.

However; with the introduction of Zero, and "place ordered" "base ten" notation, the ten human digits became less relevant.

They teach children that we use base ten because we have ten fingers … but I find that explanation hard to accept.

MichaelG.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Perhaps we need another thread for discussing arithmetic.

Most shapers won't reverse the feed when you reverse the ratchet, until you take up the backlash in the feedscrew. This is because there is nothing to stop the friction in the ratchet dragging the screw back and forth around one place, apart from the friction of the screw in the nut and the bearings. So until the screw is wound in the new direction enough to take up the backlash, they will not feed. If the friction in the ratchet is excessive they might still not work. The ratchet unit is usually mounted on the screw, so too much friction here can be a problem.

Ian, the 10 inch Alba is an excellent machine, small enough accomodate compared to some, while big enough to do some really useful work. I beleive some had three phase motors, but the base is big enough to accomodate conversion to single phase, which I think is what has been done to mine. It does not look like a factory installation anyway. The main downside of them is that the door for adjusting the stroke is really too small and makes that awkward. So if the machine is still at the school, you want to try and grab it if you can.

John

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Stephen Benson :

Any relation of yours ?

**LINK**

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

PS: I gave up reading the magazines on a regular basis in the 1980's for obvious reasons . Many other people did to . There was however a time when I read earlier copies of the magazines from cover to cover and again . The articles which interested me then were always the ones from random contributers that told about something that they had actually done , quality workshop articles from the like of Westbury and Duplex and general interest articles on a multitude of general technical subjects .

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

So what is this article about shapers to help me make a decision whether to trek out to WHS to buy it

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

John,

Far be it from me to puit you off, but the first article was a discursive discussion of what shapers are and can do. You may wish to wait for the later ones which I guess will be more about using them.

Neil

[Anonymous]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 21/06/2013 22:17:56:

Don't spoil it!

Neil

Wot? So I'm not supposed to answer? It didn't seem like a rhetorical question.

At least it was an oblique reference. I suspect that anybody who knows what two's complement is, knows the answer anyway, and anybody who doesn't may be curious enough to go and look it up.

Andrew

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Cheers

Know what they are and do having researched stuff when I got my Elliott. Will do as you suggest and plan some mooching visits to WHS.

TBH this is a bit frustrating as I subscribe to MEW as I thought it was about tools and tooling and would have expected an article like this to be in there. I have no interest in models hence why I don't get ME

John

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