Sexism in engineering language

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

How much longer will traditional terms like “male thread” or “female taper” last in today’s world?

A recent forum thread on cutting internal or female threads got me thinking about this terminology. I was also recently looking at a body mass index chart, which traditionally had two charts for men and women for ideal height vs weight. But now the latest chart is labelled “PAFB” and “PAMB” which apparently means persons assigned female at birth and persons assigned male at birth.

Obviously male or female threads, tapers, air hose fittings, plumbing fittings and the like were originally described in traditional terms based on traditional ideas about male and female genitalia, sticky out bits vs sticky inward bits. Or external vs internal if you like.

But, apparently, now, all those persons possessing sticky out bits are not necessarily male and all those in possession of sticky inward bits are not necessarily female. And this is according to the medical establishment, providing body mass index charts etc, not some fringe lunatics in their first year at university.

So far, traditional engineering terminology seems to have escaped the notice of the PC police and language reformers.

Will be interesting to see how long it lasts in this world where signs on toilet doors have been torn down for using the terms “male” and “female”.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

You may well wonder. Already, the woke morons have ‘banned’ the terms ‘Master’ and ‘Slave’, on entirely spurious, but tiresomely typical grounds. I shall carry on regardless, no doubt offending the woke – and the more offensive, the better!

Oh, and if your ‘out bits’ are sticky, seek medical help…

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

..must be getting near time for another thread on “why aren’t more young people joining the hobby”..

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Did you ever get the feeling that you are living in a madhouse ??????????

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I was writing recently about a Picomite project that uses I2C and I did pause for thought after using ‘master’ and ‘slave’ to describe device relationships. I decided that no offense was intended and that life is too short anyway to mess about with terminology all the time. I also have a growing unease about being ‘controlled’ in this way – it’s somewhat reminiscent of Orwell’s 1984.

Regards,

 

IanT

PS  My son’s for Preferred Pronoun for me seem to be  – “The Old Fart” (which I take to be a sign of deep respect!)

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

I always wondered why the sign on a females toilet shows the figure standing up

Roy

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

What’s wrong with showing a bit of consideration? I have no desire to offend people who hasn’t done anything to deserve it. Now personally I don’t see the problem with master/slave, but if it’s a problem I don’t mind using host/guest or whatever.

 

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

Well I now won’t be making any more cock ups I supppose, Thats got to be a plus.

[larry phelan 1]

On larry phelan 1 Said:

Did you ever get the feeling that you are living in a madhouse ??????????

As Ricky Gervais said: Who would have ever thought we would get into trouble for saying “Women don’t have p*n*ses”. But apparently that is where we are at.

But it has just occurred to me that perhaps male and female tapers and threads were modelled on animals rather than humans. So if a male thread is so called because it sticks out like a donkey’s sticky out bits, then a male donkey is a male donkey. It does not get to choose an alternative for itself as it goes along. So it is perfectly legitimate to use the terms male and female regarding threads or tapers.

Or should animals be regarded as genderless because they can’t tell us what their choice of gender identity is? Perhaps they will become AAFBs and AAMBs, animals assigned as female at birth and animals assigned as male at birth?

Yes we live in a madhouse.

[Alan Jackson]

On Alan Jackson Said:

Well I now won’t be making any more cock ups I supppose, Thats got to be a plus.

It will take more than that to stop me, after today’s effort in the shed.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

So is mother & daughter (as in circuit boards) to become “them & they” 🙂

To much woke stuff being pushed down our throats. The world has gone mad.

I will as the saying goes ” don’t panic & carry on” for the time being

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Recently, I have been communicating, by email, with a Frenchman. I’ve forgotten much of the French I learned >50 years ago, but Google Translate helps. I’m once again amazed by the strangeness of French inanimate objects having a gender (if I may use that word). Is that woke-friendly?

[Oldiron]

On Oldiron Said:

So is mother & daughter (as in circuit boards) to become “them & they” 🙂

To much woke stuff being pushed down our throats. The world has gone mad.

I will as the saying goes ” don’t panic & carry on” for the time being

Birth-parent board and child board perhaps?

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Oooh! Isn’t ‘child’ ageist?

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

I find myself in the strange situation of knowing exactly what male and female threads are. It’s the application of these words to people that baffles me…

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I think Hopper has got too much time on his/they/our hands?

Tony

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

As it happens I am awaiting the delivery of an ‘agent’ synchronome clock mechanism to which I will need to fit differently-abled position indicators perhaps adjusting they LGBTQI fixture point with a taper reamer. Eeek, am I allowed to use ‘taper’ as it implies the diameter at one end was not considered good enough and had to be changed which could offend small endmills.

Meanwhile would ‘cave’ be a suitable substitute. Not sure of the complimentary describer as ‘mountain’ has been assigned BHAFB (big hill assigned female at birth) owing to a song by Shakira.

[Kiwi Bloke]

On Kiwi Bloke Said:

… Already, the woke morons have ‘banned’ the terms ‘Master’ and ‘Slave’, on entirely spurious, but tiresomely typical grounds. I shall carry on regardless, no doubt offending the woke – and the more offensive, the better!

…

“Woke moron’s” and ‘the more offensive, the better‘ eh!   With these carefully chosen words Kiwi makes his position clear!  I hope he can take it as well as hand it out.

But engage brain please Kiwi.   What stops a 25 year old alpha-male kicking the poo out of a foolish old man who insults and disrespects him?   The answer is society  – we train children to be polite, honest and to respect others; we try not to fall out with the neighbours, and we make and enforce laws.  ‘woke’ is just the latest manifestation of society trying to improve itself.

Despite many imperfections, we all benefit enormously from ‘woke’, or rather the underlying societal forces that encourage individuals to behave with tact, respect, and constraint.    Consider the anti-woke alternative, let’s call this group ‘The Kiwi Fruits’.  They have low empathy, take offence, start fights, lie, steal, are callous, and believe anyone who doesn’t share their views is stupid.

Obviously only Kiwi Fruits should have rights, because everyone else is a moron, even though the opposite might be true.

A few years ago I listened to an interview where a Kiwi Fruit started by blasting woke in all forms, whilst strongly asserting his right to say what he wanted, no matter how offensive.   So far so good, except he moved on to an anti-BBC rant, the main thrust of which was that his life had been completely ruined by a few leftie comedians poking fun at his opinions.   What a wet!  This fool didn’t see any conflict between his desire to freely affront the world, whilst being an extremely sensitive soul himself.  I would define him as a bully, and concluded that the logical inconsistency of his views meant he wasn’t intelligent.

A few of my friends are “anti-woke”,  and they too are unable to accept criticism.   Challenged to justify and explain their views, they soon become shouty bad-tempered and start quoting fake-news.  In the interest of keeping the peace, my social code inhibits me from tackling them head-on, because that would ruin our otherwise fruitful relationship.   Much easier to create bad-blood than mend fences.   Not sure letting my friends off the hook though is a good thing because ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.‘

I suggest a Model Engineering forum isn’t the place for this particular debate.   Not least because the intrusion of woke terms into engineering is almost zero, and harmless where it has occurred.   Is Kiwi trolling?   Do we really care if a commercial software developer replaces ‘Master/Slave’ with ‘Leader/Follower’.   Highly unlikely the thought police will be raiding hobby workshops to ensure we’re are on message with ‘male’ and ‘female’.

Dave

 

 

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

My 8 year old grandson giggles when I ask him to close or open the cylinder cocks.

He’s been told someone that one of the words is naughty. Can’t see anything wrong with cylinder.

Still trying to work out what an alpha-male is Dave. As for the term woke – it seems there many interpretations of this so difficult to criticise or support?

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

No, Kiwi Bloke is not trolling, and his brain is indeed engaged. He may, however be a little bit guilty of dangling bait, to see what silly fish bite. And he’s immune to insult, too! I once apologised to a delightful old lady, because I had forgotten to say something to her. I thought she might be offended. She graciously reassured me: “Taking offence, my dear, is not in my repertoire.” Where are these sensible people today?

I don’t go around trying to be as offensive as possible – I’m actually quite a nice, mild-mannered old buffer, but I won’t tolerate nonsense from offence-taking complainers who find that taking the position of ‘victim’ brings them advantage in society.

The problem is that the woke revolution is more about language than behaviour. It complains about everything it can. There have always been kind, respectful, well-mannered and, well, nice people around, and that is not the result of there being an approved, invented vocabulary being imposed on society by people who love to take offence and complain about the behaviour of others. It’s also complicated by them re-defining words at will. I haven’t noticed woke folk being paragons of considerate behaviour.

I believe that in UK, the police can feel your collar for so-called ‘hate crimes’. Fair enough, if a ‘hate crime’ involves hatefully bashing the local shop owner because he looks and sounds different. But it goes too far: the supposed ‘victim’ is given the right to decide whether they have been the victim of hate. If that is the ‘victim’s’ opinion, then it becomes an offence, even if it’s just the use of an unapproved word. It is impossible to defend one’s self against someone’s opinion – they have a right to their opinion, whether it’s based on fact or prejudice. But offence taken about a personal slight – real or imagined – should not be able to make someone a criminal. I was taught “Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me”. Seems it was terribly wrong. Beware, things are moving in unsettling directions.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

I suspect wokeness is a trend that will lessen eventually.  It’s about being recognized.  Plenty of people were mistreated in the past.  Certainly nothing wrong with having respect for other people.  And certainly nothing wrong with saying “male” and “female”.  Some foreign languages have gender built right in.  I doubt Spanish is going to be remade.

People offended by “master” and “slave” need to get over it.  Nobody alive today is or was a slave, or had a parent that was a slave.  It’s terrible stuff that DIDN’T happen to you.  Move on.

You know what I’m offended by?…Hot college girls aren’t throwing their naked bodies at me.  Seriously, though.  I’m middle-aged and if I even considered approaching one of them I would be shut down with disgust.  But that’s actually ageism…Nobody can seriously argue otherwise.

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

Where I used to work we used to have machines that could be configured as a “master” and then linked to up to 3 other machines that were configured as “slaves”.

Once the company got bought by a US company they decided to change the naming convention as “leader” and “follower”.

Cars still have slave and master cylinders on the braking system the last time I looked, I wonder if this is going change?

 

Here is another couple……

“Jenny” (odd leg) calipers…..

Male and female centres…

I think Hopper may have started something now…..

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I was showing this post to a friend this morning. I would love to tell you his response, but I fear it might get me banned !

Suffice to say, he agreed with me that we do indeed live in “A Mad Mad World”, although he did not say so quite like that {He is a man of few words, usually sharp ones ].

[MikeK]

On MikeK Said:

…

People offended by “master” and “slave” need to get over it.  Nobody alive today is or was a slave, or had a parent that was a slave.

Actually there are more slaves in the world today than in the 1800s. They are just not visible on plantations in the Caribbean and southern USA. Most today are in the Middle East, northern Africa and parts of Asia.

Many are born into inter-generational debt slavery, many others are people trafficked into the sex trade and other lines, and many of those scammers who phone and email you are captive slaves in Asia. Others are just rounded up and enslaved the old fashioned way.

And if you are thinking about buying solar panels for the roof of your house, almost all of them are made using slave labour in ethnic minority Uyghur detention camps in western China.

But I doubt any of those people care two hoots about master cylinders and slave cylinders on car clutches regardless of what they are called.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Right.  That’s what I was implying.  People get bent out of shape over their feelings being “hurt”, but no concern for actual conditions that others have to put up with.

I remember a few years ago reading about some presentation or seminar or something where the audience was expected NOT to applaud because it hurt the feelings of those who didn’t get as much applause.  Everyone involved in that should have been smacked across the face.

You don’t become a better person by having your feelings not hurt, but by learning how to cope.

 

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