Self adulation

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

What ever pocessed the inclusion of 6 pages of adulation "A machine shop for the next generation"

This could well be the ultimate article to put anyone, young or old off becoming a model engineer.

How many youngsters parents go out and buy a forge so that their son can pass his A level? Then he wants to build a traction engine so the six former has to 'fund' it himself, of course with a lot of input from daddy who remember was not doing any 'projects for 2012. A mill and chuck in a lathe and some high power electrics and hope that he can get his creation out of the workshop, really.

A real shame that editor actually even considered this article for publication.

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

[MACParticipant @mac53652]

It's anally retentive phrases such as "procured from a vendor" that grind my gears, what's wrong with "bought from a seller/chap"?

 

And the wholly inappropriate (and indeed incorrect) use of "some" before a known, small number! It wasn't some 3 years ago, it was 3 years ago. Used purely to vainly add a bit of panache! Grrrr!!!!

 

OK – onto page 3 lol.

 

Edit: The bench must have been 3.200178m long (roll eyes).

Oh God: Now we've had survey photographs taken and routes of extraction discussed!

Edited By MAC on 16/10/2012 23:45:15

Edited By MAC on 16/10/2012 23:48:06

Edited By MAC on 16/10/2012 23:48:52

Edited By MAC on 16/10/2012 23:53:22

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

In reply to Clive Cook's 6 page article, firstly I have never read so much self indulgent drivel in ME for many years, this boy is funding the whole project, Oh Yes.
There is no mention of the heavy lifting gear that will be needed, I am restoring a 3" fowler but with 3 ton jacks, an overhead gantry with block and chain tackle, my 2 sons in there 40s help me so what chance has a lad got on his own. Ok the boy has won a few club awards, BUT to set up a workshop like this when Dad will be doing nothing for a while!!
No mention of Oxy, welding or most other heavy duty kit steel cutting,hearth is to small. I could go on.
David and Dianne what were you thinking of publishing this self indulgent article that panders to every whim of this boy. Alstair only intends to work in evenings so that is about 10 years of evening work, also what happens when college and girlfriends come along, also what about his studies.

please no more from this source as the last paragraph talks about an article about downsizing.

Bob
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Springbok on 17/10/2012 10:17:46

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Springbok

If we don't encourage youngsters, who will?

regards David

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You may also want to read the article, I think you will find Oxy gear is the next on the shopping list!

J

PS I've given a longer reply on TT where you also decided to have a rant.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Jason

TT ?

N

Edited By NJH on 17/10/2012 14:04:12

[Ken-01Participant @ken-01]

Having read this article. This is nothing more than a man that has a job that pays Bankers Wages?? As he talks about is son useing his owne money to buy all that tackle. The boy does not have a job ? so how did he get hold of such a large sum of money. I am all in favour of bringing young people in to this hobby. But there is a better way to encourage them rathere than rub ordinery kids knose in it, to what they could have if daddy was well of etc, etc, etc

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Reminds me of my own model engineering desires at 16 years, having just started work and decided a Myford would never be in my reach I suggested that, if I did not pay my board for a few weeks, I could afford to buy a Unimat lathe. lol. I would pay it back later. lol.

Taken to one side and given "when I were your age lad" treatment followed by the real facts of economic life, it wasn't to be, not for some time anyway.

Good luck to Alistair, he sounds very capable, not many his age dream of a career building and repairing steam engines.

Nigel

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by NJH on 17/10/2012 14:03:49:

Hi Jason

TT ?

N

Traction Talk Forum, Bob joined specially to make the same post and then didn't even get it in the miniatures section. Alistair is a member there and has been given plenty of encouragement by the members.

You will need to be a member to read the thread but its just a case of giving your e-mail.

**LINK**

 

And if you do join, Alistairs build diary of his engine is in the following link, good job he is making of it too

http://www.tractiontalkforum.com/showthread.php?t=21126

 

Just to say that had my father not bought me a lathe when I was 14 then I may not be in the hobby now

As for where a 16-17 year old can get £3000, knowing what some of my clients children earn from holiday jobs then £3K is not that hard to save up

J

Edited By JasonB on 17/10/2012 16:17:39

[Anonymous]

Dear oh dear, what a lot of curmudgeons.

Andrew

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

I am not ranting as you state only giveing my opinions, if you in your learned opinion think that I am ranting so be it. Why did not pater also show work in progress.!!

Bob

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Hi Springbok

If we don't encourage youngsters, who will?

regards David

I have no problem with encouraging youngsters in fact help a lot with teaching lathe and other machinery plus metalwork But

my point is 6 pages of as it comes over how wonderful we are and no mention of the lads work.
4 pages could have been put to better use. let us see in this forum pics of what he has achieved so far.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Wow – only having recieved issue 4440 today, I had to peek at the digital issue on-line.

Who knows – maybe the lad will be the next Cherry Hill, certainly it is much easier to learn (and absorb) at a young age then when you are retired.

At least he has a "parental unit" who is interested in what he does, and contributes and is obviously on speaking terms with his offspring. That, in itself, is a good thing, and if the family has enough funds to spend it on the model engineering world, why not?

I started with a Unimat-SL at about the age of 14 thanks to my parents I believe; certainly my mother had no issues driving around looking at larger lathes. The SL fit the price range, and the small space available. Castings, materiel, etc other than the lathe paid by me; my Tich was not finished until I was well past University, but she still runs 40 odd years after the build started.

Another JohnS

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Has built a very nice wagon for a traction engine as reported in Model Engineer.

regards David

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Posted by MAC on 16/10/2012 23:42:27:

And the wholly inappropriate (and indeed incorrect) use of "some" before a known, small number! It wasn't some 3 years ago, it was 3 years ago.

OED (and time-honoured use) doesn't actually agree with you. " ….some three years ago" is perfectly correct usage,"some" simply meaning "approximately" in that instance.

Granted, to say something like: "some three 1/2-inch bolts" is a bit silly since 1/2-inch bolts usually exist in whole numbers and with a small quantity such as 3 there shouldn't be any need to be inexact. But time intervals are certainly divisible and may need to be approximated even at quite a small number.

(Then again, OED is even starting to allow "myriad" as a noun to creep in so ….).

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I'd rather hear what Alistair has to say on the subject than about Dad's tax dodges.

Neil

[Diane CarneyModerator @dianecarney30678]

The cynicism on this forum takes my breath away. And, Springbok, why was it necessary to launch a tirade on another forum where Alistair makes regular contributions? He is well known for his generosity of spirit and general helpfulness. I have no idea what he or his father have done to you to deserve such a slating. It was an article with a different 'take' on model engineering. He's a very keen, apparently talented young man with a father who recognises his potential and chooses to help and encourage him all he can. Take it anyway you like but I fail to see anything wrong with that. You may not like his style of writing – that's another matter – but to criticise what they are doing is ridiculous and, frankly, says more about you than about them.

Diane

[MACParticipant @mac53652]

Posted by Sid Herbage on 17/10/2012 21:50:21:

Posted by MAC on 16/10/2012 23:42:27:

And the wholly inappropriate (and indeed incorrect) use of "some" before a known, small number! It wasn't some 3 years ago, it was 3 years ago.

OED (and time-honoured use) doesn't actually agree with you. " ….some three years ago" is perfectly correct usage,"some" simply meaning "approximately" in that instance.

Granted, to say something like: "some three 1/2-inch bolts" is a bit silly since 1/2-inch bolts usually exist in whole numbers and with a small quantity such as 3 there shouldn't be any need to be inexact. But time intervals are certainly divisible and may need to be approximated even at quite a small number.

(Then again, OED is even starting to allow "myriad" as a noun to creep in so ….).

But he knew when he'd bought it! It's like saying my child is some 8 years old.

I found the article extremely stuffy – the absolute shock of a diesel engine in EAST Cambridgeshire (I guess that's the most prestigious part?) – come of it…builders yards alone will mean this type of truck is driving down streets all day long, constant use of "some" before figures, inclusion of the fact he has a big (?) house – I could go on. It was like wading through cold custard. I feel entitled to judge an article.

BUT. My comments were pretty much tongue in cheek and light hearted (I just loathe stuffiness, sorry that's who I am). I didn't for one minute criticise the child, or the loving support and guidance offered to him by his devoted parents. I was the same as a teen – I emptied waste paper bins at the local factory after school aged 16 to save up for my car. And as recognition my Mum and Dad paid the insurance – I think children need and thrive from that support.

So sorry to all involved if I have caused offence, that wasn't my intention. I'm sure the lad will make some magnificent models.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I only subscribe to MEW so have not seen the article, I think I'd like to read it though just to see what all the fuss is about.

From the little I have gleaned about it on this forum though, shouldn't the article have appeared in MEW rather than ME? (probably would not have created any controversy then as the MEW readers are far more laid back)

 

Ian P

Edited By Ian Phillips on 17/10/2012 22:40:11

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Anyone remember a bit of grumbling about 10 years ago in ME about a teenager who built a Britania in double quick time and lots of people wouldn't believe his dad didn't do it . I wonder what became of him.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

But there is a better way to encourage them rathere than rub ordinery kids knose in it, to what they could have if daddy was well of etc, etc, etc

—

At the end of the day it's going to be down to the individual

I'm reading the Dan Calkin and his Elfs book at the moment and it's obvious he had a silver spoon in his mouth but at the end of the day he did do some amazing stuff

Other guys with almost nowt also do amazing things

Money does make it easier to get going in ME but nowadays we have the great equaliser, the Internet

The net has changed everything and now you can learn almost anything and you can buy almost anything cheap (my elfs book cost 18 quid)

The swarf will dig into a rich boys fingers just as much as it will to a less well off individual

The information education and kit you need is only a mouseclick away

Most importantly:

You still have to LEARN to use the gear

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If I'd been well off I would have bought a new import instead of a knackered Drummond M series

Now I wouldn't touch a new bit of kit with a pole, I love using the old stuff that other people consider obsolete etc

He'll never have that pleasure because everything will be top dollar spanky new

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

It was the length of the article that astounded me more than anything, I can only surmise that the editor is running out of short articles and used this as a page filler.

Prehaps some detective work by the editor and his staff on some of the engines that have featured in past editions of ME telling how they have survived the ravages of time and and the problems encountered during their long lives would be a good start for some short articles.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It was the length of the article that astounded me

6 pages does sound a bit major, like it was a filler upper article

[Author]

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