seig SX3 dead???

[Don 1Participant @don1]

The motor is not at fault it will run on a low volt transformer

[Leo F ByrneParticipant @leofbyrne36951]

I have always found Arceurotrade to be a very reliable and helpful supplier.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by Don Gibbs on 14/01/2016 09:37:29:

The motor is not at fault it will run on a low volt transformer

I beg to differ…..

The X3 mill motor is a permanent magnet motor with a commutator…..while the SX3 motor is a multi phase motor with position feedback sensors …..

Connecting either motor directly to an ac source will result in smoke…..

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Don Gibbs on 14/01/2016 09:37:29:

The motor is not at fault it will run on a low volt transformer

Brushed motors kill controller boards when they generate large high-voltage spikes due to problems with the brushes.

I had a washing machine controller board fail this way. I replaced the board and the motor worked, but roughly and sparking. I immediately stopped the machine. I changed the b rushes on the motor and luckily the machine was then OK.

If I had carried on using the 'working motor' I would have rapidly destroyed the new controller board.

Problems like this probably won't show up when running the motor slowly.

Neil

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Nick G hit the nail on the head.

Fizzy: In answer to your question: "Can you think of any other retailer who refuses any notion of return or warranty?"…The answer is YES…when it comes to electrical components. Refer to Nick G's comments. Still, happy you got it sorted with other suppliers mentioned in your link here— for those who care to read it. This is the same link in which someone has a different opinion to yours, but as you say…also happens to be the truth. Also, what would you rather have? …ARC being truthful to you pre-purchase of an electrical component, or to play it out with you after you have blown it? . The policy we have adopted only applies to electrical components for reasons stated by Nick G. If you still want to buy anything else from ARC – including non-electrical spares, we are happy to consider your requirements with normal return and warranty policies. If you don't want to buy from ARC, we are okay with that too.

Every situation is judged on a case by case basis. ARC always tries its best to support customers who have purchased their machines from ARC first, where ARC knows machine and user history. Such machines are covered by warranty, and supported by spares at a reasonable cost outside the warranty period.

For machines not purchased from ARC, history is uncertain unless clarified, for example:

– What were the original components used when the machine was made? – certain motors/boards have changed – compatibility – correct identification by the buyer before purchase. A good number of such enquirers (about 30%) automatically presume things incorrectly and are turned away and/or asked to identify the components clearly on the website pre-purchase.

– Or, there may be human error, abuse, ability or lack of, with certain potential buyers who are unknown. How are they using or abusing the machine? have they tested the motor/board and/or are they competent to carry out this process?. In our experience, we have come across the negative aspects of this element, where such persons knowingly or unknowingly blow a replacement component resulting from their mistake. Why should ARC be accountable for this?…some of them also say that they haven't used the said component, knowing full well that they have. Thankfully, this issue represents a minority.

– Or, dirty power…I guess soon to be classified under the banner of 'act of god'? because try resolving this one with the 'electricity board' .

Point is, too many variables making it hard to make a judgement call. So, specifically with reference to motors and control boards, we are happy with our policy, and we respect the fact that the buyer always has a choice.

Ketan at ARC.

edited to correct spellings…sorry.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 14/01/2016 11:09:34

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by fizzy on 14/01/2016 00:08:06:

Can you think of any other retaier who refuses any notion of return or warranty?

I had the ECU fail on my car, I purchased a replacement from a main dealer but was told that there was no warranty and no return possible once I opened the sealed packing.

Mike

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Simon Collier 1 on 14/01/2016 09:07:51:

Getting back to the actual machine, I have a Super X3 which is now 9 years old. It is an accurate, capable machine which I really like. However the board for the speed controls failed and I had the service guy out to replace it (from Hare and Forbes, Sydney). Also, the touch panel plastic had broken up and was replaced. A couple of the plastic handles have broken off the feed arms, and the tapping function, operated by the buttons on the end of the feed handles, now doesn't work. It would require a new main board to fix, and being labour intensive, was going to cost about $1000 (half the cost of the machine). Just now, the LCD z axis display for the spindle fine feed has failed. On my lathe, the digital readout display failed and no boards are available for that model now, so I had no option but to pay $600 for a new one (after I had sulked for about a year). I don't know whether my experience is reasonable or not, given the price of the machines, but it is intensely annoying.

Hello Simon,

I dont know if your experience is reasonable or not. ARC started selling the Super X3 about five years ago. Until then we were only selling the X3, because we did not agree with various aspects of the electronics to be found in the Super X3 when it was first introduced. ARC started selling the Super X3 after certain issues with electronics were ironed out.

With Super X3, some of your issues sound very similar to those experienced by Daz, who also happened to have the old version of various control/pc boards in the earlier verion of his machine, and one which took time to fix, in a similar manner to yours. His machine was also purchased from another seller.

Just a note: one of the photos show you using a ball nose end mill in a drill chuck. I am presuming that you do not use this practice regularly to hold end mills.

Also, with reference to your lathe, which lathe is it? Is it a SIEG family lathe or some other.?

In my experience as a seller, I have not come across any serious problems with electronics on the Super X3 within the past five years which I could point to a manufacturing issue. Any problems I have seen have been mainly user related, or dirty power related locations. We log all issues, so I can back up my comments.

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hello Don,

Had a call from the dealer who supplied you the X3 machine. Please get in touch with him and hopefully he has a resolution for you.

Ketan at ARC.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

I too have had excellent customer service from Arc Euro. They also went to a great deal of trouble giving information about some reversing switches (Seig spare parts.) which I had suggested as a suitable spare on a non Seig lathe. I can totaly understand the policy of not giving any warranty on electronic components as they can be destroyed in microseconds if connected incorrectly or to other faulty parts. Even If Arc had a X3 in stock (Which they probably do not as it has been replaced by the SX3) I would not expect them to rip a machine appart to test your board with the possibility of it damaging other items in the machine and the time taken.

Les.

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

No legal requirement to offer a warrantee.

You do need to abide by the law though, statutory rights etc.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 15:59:53:

No legal requirement to offer a warrantee.

You do need to abide by the law though, statutory rights etc.

Indeed, and we do.

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Les Jones 1 on 14/01/2016 14:55:18:

I too have had excellent customer service from Arc Euro. They also went to a great deal of trouble giving information about some reversing switches (Seig spare parts.) which I had suggested as a suitable spare on a non Seig lathe. I can totaly understand the policy of not giving any warranty on electronic components as they can be destroyed in microseconds if connected incorrectly or to other faulty parts. Even If Arc had a X3 in stock (Which they probably do not as it has been replaced by the SX3) I would not expect them to rip a machine appart to test your board with the possibility of it damaging other items in the machine and the time taken.

Les.

Thanks Les..as it so happens, we still do have an old X3 which we use for a variety of testing. Without getting into details, it has helped us in many ways, to include certain destruction tests.

Ketan at ARC.

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I have an SX3 and bought from ARC 5 years ago,it had a small mechanical problem and was fixed immediatly.The machine is a joy to use if you don't expect it to work as hard as an industrial machine.I have had no issues with and cannot fault the customer service from ARC.

Frank

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

Ketan, the lathe is a 6" ch Chinese and the digital readout came fitted, an Easson unit. I often use mills in the drill chuck (too lazy to change over) which is fine when doing "facing" type cuts, but if doing deep cuts with the side of the cutter, they will climb out of the chuck into the work. Which brings me to chuck removal. I was originally advised by the supplier that one unscrews the drawbar a bit and hits it with a hammer. I became unhappy with this and made a stub of drawbar thread (1/2 Whitworth) glued to a cap screw, and use a long bar with a bit of hex key in the end. I remove the drawbar, use the extended key to screw the stub into the end of the 3MT spindle in the machine, and then use a wedge through the slots to break the taper. What do other people do?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Hit it with a hammer (copper), 9yrs old X3 and still going strong

No wonder you leave the drill chuck in if you have to go through all that to change tooling

Edited By JasonB on 14/01/2016 20:37:41

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 14/01/2016 17:35:48:

 

Posted by Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 15:59:53:

No legal requirement to offer a warrantee.

You do need to abide by the law though, statutory rights etc.

Indeed, and we do.

Ketan at ARC.

 

How does this: "Electrical components are checked before dispatch, and we refuse to consider claims for replacement," 

fit in with UK law???????!!!!!!!

Anything can happen, courier damage etc

Edited By Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 21:18:25

Edited By Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 21:18:43

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 21:16:52:

Posted by Ketan Swali on 14/01/2016 17:35:48:

 

Posted by Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 15:59:53:

No legal requirement to offer a warrantee.

You do need to abide by the law though, statutory rights etc.

Indeed, and we do.

Ketan at ARC.

 

How does this: "Electrical components are checked before dispatch, and we refuse to consider claims for replacement,"

fit in with UK law???????!!!!!!!

Anything can happen, courier damage etc

Edited By Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 21:18:25

Edited By Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 21:18:43

It fits in very easily within the UK law Chris (excluding courier damage of coarse). But then again, you figure it out, keeping in mind various issues about points being raised pre-sale, pre-checks, competence of fitter, reasonableness – incorporated within the latest amendments of the SoG Act – to include distant selling act. Then if you wish to contest it, stand in line and do the needful via which ever legal representative you wish to employ.

As you have raised a point of law, did you manage to get a reply from PayPal for them selling you a credit card under the false statement of it being a kind of 'debit card'?. I recall having to prove to you that PayPal had lied to you and I provided you evidence to enable you to challenge them, but failed to hear anything from you, and I note that you have not read your pm sent to you at that time, hence the reason for this concern.

As Nick G says, the experience we have had with the minority leads us to issue policies and judgement calls. Just as the buyer is correctly entitled to redress under the law, the seller has reasonable points of reference for guidance. Either party can contest and everyone has a choice.

Ketan at ARC

Sorry – forgot to add the word 'Act' after the SoG

Edited By Ketan Swali on 14/01/2016 21:42:10

Edited By Ketan Swali on 14/01/2016 21:43:58

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Hi Simon,

I also have an SX3 mill and found that there is too much play when holding a cutter in a drill chuck and always use a collet or collet chuck for milling. I am also concerned about damaging the spindle bearings when you hit the end of the drawbar to remove tooling. My solution is to support the bottom of the spindle with a wooden block and take any load away from the bearings before tapping the drawbar with an aluminium hammer. If the cutter or chuck is wedged too tightly in the spindle I use a special, wedge removal clamp to remove it (published in MEW issue 231).

Paul

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Well I've been stung.

Sold a working TV 'digisender' on ebay.

Buyer asked for a return as 'not working'

In their return request they state they could not get a good picture -(it was clearly sold without instructions and it takes some fiddling to get a good picture). It clearly 'works' they just can't get a good picture because of lack of effort/ watching the video i linked to or things like local interference/thick walls /distance etc.

But because they ticked the 'not working' box I have to pay for the return postage BEFORE I can check it and prove it's Ok.

Is that fair?

Neil

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Simon Collier 1 on 14/01/2016 20:26:52:

Ketan, the lathe is a 6" ch Chinese and the digital readout came fitted, an Easson unit. I often use mills in the drill chuck (too lazy to change over) which is fine when doing "facing" type cuts, but if doing deep cuts with the side of the cutter, they will climb out of the chuck into the work. Which brings me to chuck removal. I was originally advised by the supplier that one unscrews the drawbar a bit and hits it with a hammer. I became unhappy with this and made a stub of drawbar thread (1/2 Whitworth) glued to a cap screw, and use a long bar with a bit of hex key in the end. I remove the drawbar, use the extended key to screw the stub into the end of the 3MT spindle in the machine, and then use a wedge through the slots to break the taper. What do other people do?

Okay, so I am presuming that the lathe is not from SIEG family. Also, as the problem on your lathe is not really the lathe, but an Easson unit, the problem is with some kind of glass scales. Generally SIEG only uses SINO glass scales, and various industrial machine manufacturers use SINO or XPOS glass scales. If an importer such as your supplier in Australia HAFCO ? wants cheaper, then they can specify and use Easson, or generally it is also available as an after market product. Chinese machine manufacturers do not generally like to fit Easson. ARC has no experience of Easson units other than advice received from machine manufacturers, but I have just spoken with a U.K. seller who specialises in sales of glass scales (yes at 9.40pm GMT), who tells me that he has found consistency issues with Easson. On the other hand, I also know some users of Easson scales who are happy with them. Now it is up to you to decide what to do, as long as you don't form a 'generalised' negative opinion pointing in one direction.

Coming back to your Super X3, I gave you my comments and opinions earlier. In addition, I would suggest you avoid holding end mills in drill chucks. Also it is safe to use a copper hammer as Jason B as directed. With reference to your z axis fine feed DRO, it works on the same principal as your calliper. Have you checked the battery? Have you used a silver oxide SR44 battery – fresh from new stock, or cheap stuff from the Dollar shop? Have you checked that there is no contamination from swarf or coolant/combination?, are the wipers or felt worn/clean – keeping the reading surface/track clean when it enters the body of the reading head? – common sense straight forward questions – meaning to be helpful rather than patronising in any way. Could fine dust from your recent milling of brass (as a recent photo suggests) have got into the the reading head? If this has worked for nine years for you, and if you have failed to keep an eye on these points, then I would say that the z axis fine feed DRO has worked and served you extremely well considering the points raised. Do you feel confident, capable or competent enough to take it apart, clean it and re-assemble it? – which might work. If you do take it apart, look out for finer components which could fall out and which could prove to be a bother during re-asembly, if you are not careful.

Good luck and happy milling.

Ketan at ARC.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

If the vertical read head has died, a replacement won't break the bank, few places sell them, but Machine DRO do:

http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/replacement-reading-head-for-vertical-digital-scales.html

Neil

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/01/2016 10:17:58:

If the vertical read head has died, a replacement won't break the bank, few places sell them, but Machine DRO do:

http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/replacement-reading-head-for-vertical-digital-scales.html

Neil

Neil,

If the z axis fine feed reading head is totally dead, depending on the age of his machine, the part to which you have linked 'may or may not' fit his machine, provided he can figure it out and not drop/lose bits during the dismantling of the assembly.

That reading head has gone through a little change over time. The assembly is part SX3-29 which is currently to be found on this page.

As you can see, the buttons are a little different. It is not possible to say if the fittings inside are same as the machine-dro link you gave Simon.

I did not direct Simon to the link because his post indicated that he had his dealer HAFCO servicing his requirements in Australia. Also, if he is not sure about what he is doing, parts can fall out during dismantling, and then one ends up trying to help the person to sort out his problem…as we know from experience in the U.K., and not something ARC wishes to get involved with over this distance. If Simon decides to consider your proposal or the assembly SX-29 as shown on ARCs site, he would need to consider 'the risk' he is taking, and make his own judgement call,….or deal with his dealer in Australia.

Ketan at ARC.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Hi Ketan. I do take your point. But If I bought a new motor then killed it I would never dream of returning it under warranty, but after talking to others on this subject it seems that most would, and I am inclined to think that this might be the reasoning behing a no returns policy. Regardless, I have bought from you previously and your customer service has been brilliant. I wasnt trying to do you an injustice, I was just suprised at the outcome.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

No worries Fizzy, I understand. Electrical components are always a serious area of concern, hence our policy on warrantee and returns for such components, due to our past experience, as pointed out by Nick G.

Everything else we sell is not so open to such high risk, so well covered by warranty as appropriate, and as explained earlier, we work within the law, and try to resolve problems quickly.

Thank you also for your understanding and custom.

Ketan at ARC.

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

Thanks to Jason, Paul and Ketan for your advice. The z axis readout is OK now: I removed and replaced the battery and it unfroze. Simple I know, but it has never done this before. It is alkaline, as they are more readily available, but I will get some silver oxide batteries.

The lathe is a Hafco AL 76. It came with the readout, possibly fitted by the supplier, Hare and Forbes, Sydney. At least the new unit just plugged straight in to the leads from the scales.

I will now use a copper hammer on the mill. The reason I did not was that, when I drifted out tools from the lathe spindle 5MT taper, it tightened up the tapered roller bearings, which then had to be adjusted by the service bloke. So I made up a system to press out tooling which is more complicated and slower then my system for the mill.

Jason, I am guessing you also have a bigger mill for you traction engine parts. My SX3 is OK for 5" gauge loco stuff, but I wouldn't think it adequate for TE parts.

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