Secrecy…within the workshop?

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Back in the early 1960's when I was an apprentice one of my mentors motto was " knowledge withheld is knowledge lost "

Very true ! John

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I think a big change in the work place, is the skilled/time served, have been replaced by people with very limited experience. This new breed of worker, knows everything and needs to be shown nothing! (at least until they are stood looking at yet another batch of scrap parts that they know nothing of).

Years ago, information and experience were freely shared, and much appreciated. Now its all young/inexperienced people telling how to do my job.

Charts not parts…..

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/06/2016 23:04:28:

Secrecy ?? what's that ??

Couple of months ago very excited girlfriend steams in with a parcel saying look what I've just 'won' on Ebay and proceed to unwrap a pristine set of carbide grade 1 metric slip gauges to add to the imperial set she already owns.

Then spends an evening cleaning and calibrating all the metric micrometers she can find.

Where on earth does one find a girlfriend like that? Must be more to living at Bodger's Lodge than meets the eye.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

ooops Double post. Too much excitement just thinking about a girlfriend who appreciates a good set of slip gauges.

Edited By Hopper on 22/06/2016 08:52:59

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Thats impossible, a girlfriend who's fond of engineering? Preposterous! Unless you created one like frankenstein's monster ("It's allivve!!" ) This doesn't naturally occur very often, and you should count your lucky stars for being gifted with this.

Anyway, It's good to hear that most people have benefited from wisdom handed down and in engineering secrecy is a rare thing and often met with bemusement, as if almost a selfish trait.

I don't have to worry about prying eyes for deliveries as my folks are used to me buying materials and small tools, it's just the big stuff i have to be quiet about. I'm not allowed to play with oxy/acetaline for e.g :'(

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 22/06/2016 23:13:15

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Hopper on 22/06/2016 08:51:04:

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/06/2016 23:04:28:

Secrecy ?? what's that ??

Couple of months ago very excited girlfriend steams in with a parcel saying look what I've just 'won' on Ebay and proceed to unwrap a pristine set of carbide grade 1 metric slip gauges to add to the imperial set she already owns.

Then spends an evening cleaning and calibrating all the metric micrometers she can find.

Where on earth does one find a girlfriend like that? Must be more to living at Bodger's Lodge than meets the eye.

.

.

Very fortunate guy and also very grateful guy, Debs is a very private person and I'd get hung for telling stories but here's a taster.

Deb's kitchen.

She's had to fit the CNC mill and lathe here as her bedroom has all her train stuff.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

wow, I'd say

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 22/06/2016 23:29:05:

Deb's kitchen.

.

That's very smart

'Ordinary' women use cookie-cutters !

MichaelG.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well John – congratulations to Deb! I can see that she is far better organised than you and, what's more, she has carefully thought through the workshop process . What a good idea to site the equipment next to the washing machine so overalls can be processed instantly at the end of the day! I trust that she insists that you too up your game in the organisation department !

Norman

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Debs has clearly got a lot to learn. I mean you can still see the lathe and mill. Tell her to get her finger out, she can fit loads more broken drills, old tins, bits of swarf etc, on that bench.

David.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It's just a shame she doesn't persuade John to install a dishwasher in the Bodger's Lodge

Neil

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I wonder if there is a dishwasher in the crate that's just been delivered from China.

 

 

All it says on the crate is John and Debs new toy……………………….

Edited By John Stevenson on 23/06/2016 23:23:44

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Well I've heard of fighting to use the Bathroom in the morning, but fighting to use the Mill must be something else!

Edit, I must learn to type and post much faster.

Edited By V8Eng on 23/06/2016 23:28:22

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

There seems to be enormous secrecy regarding circuit diagrams (i.e. motor speed controllers). Back in the 70:s just about every piece of electronic kit was accompanied by a circuit diagram. Even my transistor radio had a diagram on the inside of the case. Now, you can trawl the internet for information, and unless someone has traced the circuit board and posted the diagram, you will be unsuccessful. I can only assume that the manufacturers would rather you purchased a new PCB than repair the faulty one, So much for recvcling!

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Yes, Knights – the handbooks that came with new cars in the 1960s and 70s had circuit diagrams, too. I remember owning a Fiat which had a well-translated handbook, but the circuit diagram was in Italian. However, it was easy to follow if you learned the Italian words for colours. The worst were some BMC wiring looms, because if the workers making them up ran out of one colour they used any other colour that was different to the rest on the particular circuit. However, in that era you didn't have to have a degree in electronics to understand the simple circuits in the average car.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

And don't forget at least two motorbikes from the land of the rising Yen that hit our shores and never lasted long enough to import spares.

With regards to electronic (or any other) repairs, how do you ensure the minimum wage payment by allowing simplicity to be reflected in costs? Thirty odd years ago, an O-ring fitted to the HP pump of the trick suspension system of my car cost 10p – and then £25 for fitting. I bought a Haynes then – – –

 

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 24/06/2016 09:45:24

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Yep, it's probably because they would rather many people didn't learn how to make use of our own circuits so that we buy theirs instead, it's a monopoly on information to protect their stake.

I had a rather forthright electronics (college) teacher, who i didn't always agree with but i had alot of respect for him. And he believed that the establishment would rather keep us in the dark with technology and make sure that the subject stays as dull and boring as possible to the younger generation so we stay hooked on big businesses tech and mobile phones.

I remember when i was in secondary school i asked my teacher what a resistor is made of and how they make them only to be told i was just asking a nuisance question and that it was irrelevant. I failed to see how that attitude was supposed to encourage me to learn.

Michael W

 

Edited By Michael Walters on 24/06/2016 10:20:14

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Can't blame the establishment for ALL the ills of the time. Sounds like both "Teachers" had a lack of the skills to inspire. Thankfully my early education, 10 onwards, consisted in getting knuckles rapped by not getting fingers out of the way faster than the spinning wooden prop, or getting a crack from the plug lead of a Vespa scooter basket case Daddy was rebuilding and things that involved much more that pressing buttons or having the difficulty of deciding where to put a cross in a box given that three out of the four possible answers were ludicrous.

Regards Ian.

[JonParticipant @jon]

Surely it depends what working on or who for.

Generally if work for a company help and advice should be given out freely to help work mates.

On the other hand if a world leader not many about these days you want to keep to yourself. Worlds full of copiers stealing info etc who have no inclination or intelligence to work things out.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Posted by Anthony Knights on 24/06/2016 07:46:52:

There seems to be enormous secrecy regarding circuit diagrams (i.e. motor speed controllers). Back in the 70:s just about every piece of electronic kit was accompanied by a circuit diagram. Even my transistor radio had a diagram on the inside of the case. Now, you can trawl the internet for information, and unless someone has traced the circuit board and posted the diagram, you will be unsuccessful. I can only assume that the manufacturers would rather you purchased a new PCB than repair the faulty one, So much for recvcling!

I eMailed the manufacturer for circuit schematics for the speed controller on my lathe and they were good enough to supply the PDF's by return mail. No issue, except working out which of the several similar schematics matched my board!

[Mike LightfootParticipant @mikelightfoot72419]

Having trained as an aircraft tech in the RAF longer ago than I care to remember, information tech and otherwise was always freely given it was always thought if everyone knows how to do it it makes it easier for everyone. A shock then on leaving and going to work for an old railway company (BR I think it was called) when knowledge was most definitely perceived power amongst some it was one way the old RSI kept his position it was only later with the advent of BS 5750 ( does that date it) that drawings etc became freely available suddenly everyone could mend a locomotive!

[JonParticipant @jon]

Not that long ago Mike I was a registered auditor when it first started had to do a course in Coventry.

Just a job for the jobsworths you can write anything in or as little as you want. Don't write it in, don't have to do it, simple and easy to fool the BS geeza.
Used to drive me round the bend every time did a purchase order had to write in the full spec for each part or material bought. One plate and 1000 tonne of steel would be two specs written down twice, some days 20 odd times couldn't stamp had to have carbon copy. BS 20 odd years on its I can only remember first 18 numerals of the material specs.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

At one point I was told that I had to do a risk assessment for every piece of equipment in the machine shop. The entire workshop was a restricted area because we worked on military stuff. Outsiders simply could not get in. All of the machines were run by highly skilled (honest!) guys. As, at that time the risk assessment form seemed to be designed to prevent "outsiders" from becoming endangered and/or injured by inappropriate use of a stapler, I was able to write all of the risk assessments, for about 20 odd machines in about an hour.

No doubt the bureaucrats have now closed that particular loophole, and every machine requires 42 pages of bumph.

Yet, the "interior designer" engaged to devise an appropriate colour scheme for the Planning Office, picked a vile bilious, headache inducing colour for a feature wall. Despite everyone complaining about it she was the expert (secret knowledge!) and it couldn't be changed. So we covered it up with drawings and photographs, floor to ceiling wall to wall, she wasn't impressed, poor little thing.

cheers

Bill

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Sometimes secrets are really necessary in engineering workshops. It can be quite a simple idea that keeps a company in business. But in most cases if you really think about it, it becomes obvious. But not all are though. I don't mind passing on the knowledge of skills to do tasks, ie hard turning parts, or fitting tapers on injection moulding tools. If you do know the secrets, often it pays to keep them, especially when it maintains a friendship with the company or customer. Sales reps have to keep secrets or they will not be allowed on site to sell their products.

Neil

[JonParticipant @jon]

Posted by Neil Lickfold on 28/06/2016 08:42:12:

Sometimes secrets are really necessary in engineering workshops. It can be quite a simple idea that keeps a company in business.

Totally agree Neil I have spent severe time over the years doing R&D and don't expect to see someone just walse straight in and copy which in effect is stealing. Have not only stay one step ahead not two but three steps, theyre now copying stuff from 1992.
Worlds full of companies of this nature with stature my bank balance better than yours. try stopping me.

I deal globally and have done for over two decades, most other countries just cant see any wrong in copying, more so the places that cnc stuff out, my take they haven't the intellectual properties required and no idea of intended use of end product behind a desk.

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