screwmez app

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Who uses LibreOffice?

Have you tried V5.2, Neil?

I used V4.x and did find it wanting in some areas, such as imports from Office, but newer versions seem to be OK with the Office files I have tried, which were Word & Power point, from the school my Mrs works at.

Martin.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Mike and Neil – you are both far too gentlemanly!

I do my best to attract fulminating content and millions of hits, and all I get is violent agreement.

And Neil using the LIKE word on me is a deadly way of defusing a good row. How could I possibly take issue with someone who likes something?

Back to the drawing board…

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

I actually care what my documents look like so I've never used carp like MS Times New Roman for example. I like quite a few of the Adobe fonts that come with their packages. Chances are therefore that even if I did use MS Word many folks wouldn't see the document as intended anyway. This is where Word Processors, including MS Word fall down. I was heavily involved in the publishing of company documents years ago and it's fair to say that professionals in the print industry, at least the 4 or 5 I've dealt with, don't waste their time with WP programmes. It was all done with PDF files. In house we used PDF and InDesign. Of course you get idiots say things like you can't edit PDF files because they miss the point. They also miss the point that you can copy text and pictures from PDF files that aren't protected. I should add that one of our printers years ago would accept word files, but they charged us extra for the privilege as they used to load Word specially for us. All their other clients played the game and used PDF, and this was over 20 years ago.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 09/09/2016 16:32:16:

Mike and Neil – you are both far too gentlemanly!

I do my best to attract fulminating content and millions of hits, and all I get is violent agreement.

.

If you want to get my back up … just keep calling me Mike

… I always sign myself Michael, and that's what I prefer.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Vic on 09/09/2016 17:02:42:

I actually care what my documents look like so I've never used carp like MS Times New Roman for example. I like quite a few of the Adobe fonts that come with their packages. Chances are therefore that even if I did use MS Word many folks wouldn't see the document as intended anyway. This is where Word Processors, including MS Word fall down. I was heavily involved in the publishing of company documents years ago and it's fair to say that professionals in the print industry, at least the 4 or 5 I've dealt with, don't waste their time with WP programmes. It was all done with PDF files. In house we used PDF and InDesign. Of course you get idiots say things like you can't edit PDF files because they miss the point. They also miss the point that you can copy text and pictures from PDF files that aren't protected. I should add that one of our printers years ago would accept word files, but they charged us extra for the privilege as they used to load Word specially for us. All their other clients played the game and used PDF, and this was over 20 years ago.

I work in word but things like reports get saved as PDFs.

I do all my proofing in Acrobat, but I would hate to use it as a word processor – it's an advanced reader/viewer/proofing/collaboration tool. Create your document in Word THEN export it to PDF – the clue's in the names, one is a 'word processor' the other is a 'portable document format'.

Naturally our designers use PDFs and Indesign, I do all my proofing in acrobat but I do the editing in Word.

(It's amazing the fonts and layout contributors use; don't tell anyone but my first job editing any document for MEW is to strip out all the fancy formatting and fonts…)

Copying text from PDFs is a nightmare as it adds a new line at the end of EVERY line so if you want to convert easily to a word processor you have to pay Adobe.

neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/09/2016 17:44:35:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 09/09/2016 16:32:16:

Mike and Neil – you are both far too gentlemanly!

I do my best to attract fulminating content and millions of hits, and all I get is violent agreement.

.

If you want to get my back up … just keep calling me Mike

… I always sign myself Michael, and that's what I prefer.

MichaelG.

Well that's just typical. My deliberate attempt to start a ruckus fails and then I put my foot in it by accident.

Sorry!

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 09/09/2016 20:18:40:

Well that's just typical. My deliberate attempt to start a ruckus fails and then I put my foot in it by accident.

Sorry!

Dave

.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2016 08:26:34:

I think I've learned my lesson.

It's clear that the variations in people's individual computer setups/antivirus etc.mean that hobbyists won't be able to afford to pay for security certificates from Microsoft or have the resources to 'beta test' their programs with hundreds of volunteers and then bundle any essential DLLs etc. and set up the programs with a fully featured installer.

I think, therefore, that in future I had best politely turn down any more offers of utilities for readers.

Neil

 

Neil,

Actually, with a little bit of foresight, and with zero expense by using open source and free software, it really isn't that difficult for a developer to create an installation package that will install a utility that will run reliably on all versions of Windows – XP and newer.

Most development environments have tools that will generate a list of dependencies so by using a free installer package – I use and can recommend Inno Setup, it is easy to ensure that the necessary dependencies are installed at runtime. I distribute an open source cross platform (Windows & Linux) application that I first released in 2005 and despite a few hundred downloads a month, as far as I am aware no one has ever had any trouble getting the software to run.

So it probably isn't really necessary to turn down all utilities, as long the person making the offer understands that it needs to include a dependable installation package and isn't based on 20 year old technology that may or may not be supported in the latest incantation of Windows. If a developer is going to take the trouble to release something, then they should at least make the effort to ensure that it is usable.

Clive

 

Edited By clivel on 09/09/2016 21:45:50

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

It’s back to the same old hobby argument.

Some people have more time than money, others have more money than time.

Open source is often bandied about but from my experience as soon as I see something with ‘sourceforge’ in the link I quickly pass on.

The main reason being is that over the years I have rralied that time spent initially finding the program as it must be a geek contest how deep they can hide the link, then getting the program, then getting all the add ons splattered all over the web only to find that without 4 more nights research it won’t work I have wasted my time.

Probably wasted over a period of many years to have afforded to buy anything out there that works.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2016 19:21:06:

Posted by Vic on 09/

I work in word but things like reports get saved as PDFs.

I do all my proofing in Acrobat, but I would hate to use it as a word processor – it's an advanced reader/viewer/proofing/collaboration tool. Create your document in Word THEN export it to PDF – the clue's in the names, one is a 'word processor' the other is a 'portable document format'.

Naturally our designers use PDFs and Indesign, I do all my proofing in acrobat but I do the editing in Word.

neil

Your reason for must having word was exchanging files with others. I'm not suggesting you don't use a WP just that it's more sensible to send PDF to others then you can be sure they see exactly what you do. I've never had a problem copying text or pictures from unprotected PDF files.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by clivel on 09/09/2016 21:43:49:

Neil,

Actually, with a little bit of foresight, and with zero expense by using open source and free software, it really isn't that difficult for a developer to create an installation package that will install a utility that will run reliably on all versions of Windows – XP and newer.

…

So it probably isn't really necessary to turn down all utilities, as long the person making the offer understands that it needs to include a dependable installation package and isn't based on 20 year old technology that may or may not be supported in the latest incantation of Windows. If a developer is going to take the trouble to release something, then they should at least make the effort to ensure that it is usable.

But these are hobbyists, not developers. They will have a set of tools to hand, have used them to make something that works for them.

My feeling is that as I have had multiple complaints and not one comment expressing appreciation for these two utilities, I have to assume that making such things available to readers is not a bonus, but actually something that has reduced their enjoyment of the magazine.

Clearly the benefits of such things to subscribers are minimal and the disbenefits are large, so I would be stupid to risk repeating the exercise.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Vic on 10/09/2016 12:25:31:

Your reason for must having word was exchanging files with others. I'm not suggesting you don't use a WP just that it's more sensible to send PDF to others then you can be sure they see exactly what you do. I've never had a problem copying text or pictures from unprotected PDF files.

PDFs are fine for finished reports, invoices etc. but hopeless where you are working on a document others need to edit properly. I shudder to think how I would cope with twenty people's feedback on a 100-page PDF when with Word I can use track changes and merge versions so that all their input can be incorporated without me having to retype it.

Also, when copying text from PDF a newline is inserted at the end of every line, completely destroying the paragraph formatting, very often the read order is jumbled as well. For this reason I won't cut and paste contributions sent as PDFs unless they are very short, you get far too many errors.

Photos in PDF are usually over-compressed and rarely at a usable resolution for anything other than the original document. The same applies to Word.

On the other hand, PDF is ideal for engineering drawings because you do get what the originator expects and as they are vectors it's easy for our designers to replace fonts (we use only house fonts bearing in mind we can only use ones we have licences for) and scale images to fit the page.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 10/09/2016 13:43:06:

Posted by Vic on 10/09/2016 12:25:31:

Your reason for must having word was exchanging files with others. I'm not suggesting you don't use a WP just that it's more sensible to send PDF to others then you can be sure they see exactly what you do. I've never had a problem copying text or pictures from unprotected PDF files.

PDFs are fine for finished reports, invoices etc. but hopeless where you are working on a document others need to edit properly. I shudder to think how I would cope with twenty people's feedback on a 100-page PDF when with Word I can use track changes and merge versions so that all their input can be incorporated without me having to retype it.

Also, when copying text from PDF a newline is inserted at the end of every line, completely destroying the paragraph formatting, very often the read order is jumbled as well. For this reason I won't cut and paste contributions sent as PDFs unless they are very short, you get far too many errors.

Photos in PDF are usually over-compressed and rarely at a usable resolution for anything other than the original document. The same applies to Word.

On the other hand, PDF is ideal for engineering drawings because you do get what the originator expects and as they are vectors it's easy for our designers to replace fonts (we use only house fonts bearing in mind we can only use ones we have licences for) and scale images to fit the page.

It sounds like you should be using OpenDocument Format files.

Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

No..

Why not just continue to use something that you know and works. Why reinvent the wheel ?

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by John Stevenson on 10/09/2016 15:41:44:
No..

Why not just continue to use something that you know and works. Why reinvent the wheel ?

Because it's nonproprietary and doesn't lock you in to one software supplier's product. Why Should I adhere to one corporations changeable standards, when I can use a product of my choice that uses an open global standard which I can share with anyone?

I think Microsoft give the option for ODF to be the default format to save documents in with their newer software releases too.

The links I posted explain in more detail why it's a good idea.

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 10/09/2016 16:24:26

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I can honestly never understand why these things generate such high feelings? I only work p/t on MEW (not according to my Wife…) and the rest of the time I'm an environmental consultant. In three years of that and the previous 25 years since I worked with a typing pool, the only formats I've had to deal with other than word are Wordperfect and Wordstar (both many years ago).

For MEW I do get sent odt files and word opens & saves them them with no problems.

No-one has ever complained about getting microsoft documents (an M$ give away free viewers for their formats).

For me ease of use and compatibility trump everything else, why should I risk anything else just to save few quid and make a somewhat shaky point about globalisation?

Neil

[wheeltapperParticipant @wheeltapper]

What I find strange about this is , apart from me and one other, no one else has posted that it doesn't work for them, and, even stranger, apart from Neil, no one has posted that it DOES work.

Very interesting.

Roy (who seems to have started something)

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by wheeltapper on 10/09/2016 17:17:54:

What I find strange about this is , apart from me and one other, no one else has posted that it doesn't work for them,

Perhaps most people already have MSVBVM50.dll – it's fairly ubiquitous. If peoples' recent Windows installations are upgrades, it would have been carried over from the Windows previous version even if a clean install didn't include it (and I wouldn't expect it to).

Moreover, these are the Visual Basic runtime files. What's supposed to happen is that, if someone writes and distributes an application in Visual Basic he includes the runtime file as part of the installation. He might check to see whether they already exist on the target machine or even specifically ask the end-user but those files are part of the program and the application installation is incomplete without them.

For this reason, many people have the runtime on their machine – even with later versions of Windows – without ever consciously putting them there themselves.

The strange thing here, if there is one, is that the program (Screwmez) doesn't include the runtime – with at least an option to install it – in the package. It's incomplete without it (not that it would be the first time).

FWIW, this machine running Win-8.1 has a copy (dated 2004). It started as a clean install of Win-8 then upgraded to Win-8.1 neither of which is likely to have installed the VB runtime. Somewhere along the line, something that I installed provided a copy.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Posted by John Stevenson on 10/09/2016 12:01:46:
It's back to the same old hobby argument.

Some people have more time than money, others have more money than time.

Open source is often bandied about but from my experience as soon as I see something with 'sourceforge' in the link I quickly pass on.

The main reason being is that over the years I have rralied that time spent initially finding the program as it must be a geek contest how deep they can hide the link, then getting the program, then getting all the add ons splattered all over the web only to find that without 4 more nights research it won't work I have wasted my time.

Probably wasted over a period of many years to have afforded to buy anything out there that works.

John,

I don't completely disagree with you, nevertheless there is some very good open source software some of which is actually far superior to the commercial equivalents. And without open source the software the world as we know it would not exist, there would be no internet,no email, no web, no cloud computing and no Android phones. 3D graphics would be in its infancy and 3D printing a pipe-dream. Linux a poster child for open source may not have made the significant impact on the desktop (although I haven't run anything else for years) that its proponents had hoped for, but it has a commanding share of the server market as well as being the operating system used by the countless embedded computers that industry relies on; no doubt it is even to be found in much of the CNC equipment you use on a regular basis.

The problem however is that far too many developers, whether they be professionals or hobbyists, will with best of intentions throw out some software that they wrote as "gift" for others to make use of, blissfully unaware that the buggy or ill-documented gift that they have given is not actually free if the recipient has to waste hours trying to make it work before giving up in frustration.

Clive

 

Edited By clivel on 10/09/2016 20:11:23

[GSPParticipant @gsp]

Do carry on and print more apps. I found screwmez very interesting. Yes there was a problem with no dll (Windows 10) but downloaded the appropriate file from Microsoft and so far no more problems. Perhaps new apps should be published with a health warning and it might be a good idea to create a recovery point before installing.

Best wishes Graham.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Cannot comment on the downloads – I was going to download them but just haven't got around to it yet.

With regards the whole MS Office thing – I was a very early "business" user of "PCs" – using 20/20 (on a Z80 CP/M "PC" ) and running customer leasing forecasts (that had taken me three days to do manually before and which were the worst part of my working month) that suddenly took just 10 minutes to run – although three file outputs had to be added together because all the data couldn't be handled at once in the 64kb memory.

I also remember the cost and pain of running my business using Wordperfect, 20/20 and various other "proprietary" applications (all incompatible) across a number of users. I wasn't a great fan of Office to begin with but it slowly dawned on me how easy it made my working life compared to what had gone before – and it saved us lots of money too when compared to buying separate apps from multiple vendors. So Neil's comments certainly ring bells with me!

It's strange people get upset about paying money for a 'virtual' product that has taken billions of dollars to develop over the years and knock it for all sorts of reasons. Without MS and the PC there would be no affordable computing (or the Internet – so perhaps not a complete blessing). It was because the PC was effectively an open hardware platform that competition drove down prices. My first 286 AT (from IBM) cost nearly four grand altogether (a lot more money back then!).

And whilst I'm having a bit of a rant in this area – I do get fed up with the Microsoft knockers who bang on all the time about how dreadful MS is – but seem perfectly happy to get ripped off by Apple. Apple may make very nice products but they are not cheap nor are they 'open' in any sense of the word (from a hardware or software perspective) as my sons have learnt.

Of course all of this is old hat and already history in reality. Everything will move online and only be available as 'compute' hours, with all your storage and apps running in cloudland somewhere. You will pay for access via subscriptions and my grandchildren will view all this just like we view the gas, electricity and phone bill – as a utility. When they find Grandad's old Core i5 PC in the attic – they will look at it with the same kind of amused bewilderment that we now view some of those wonderful early Victorian inventions… whilst complaining that Google has screwed up their tera-byte charges (again) this month….and that their phone implant is already out of date…

Regards,

 

IanT

Edited By IanT on 11/09/2016 09:06:41

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by GSP on 10/09/2016 23:39:13:

Do carry on and print more apps. I found screwmez very interesting. Yes there was a problem with no dll (Windows 10) but downloaded the appropriate file from Microsoft and so far no more problems. Perhaps new apps should be published with a health warning and it might be a good idea to create a recovery point before installing.

Best wishes Graham.

Thanks Graham,

Sadly your solution (and I posted the link to the missing file above) seems to simple.

I'll put the link in the article though.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by IanT on 11/09/2016 09:06:08:

…

I also remember the cost and pain of running my business using Wordperfect, 20/20 and various other "proprietary" applications (all incompatible) across a number of users. I wasn't a great fan of Office to begin with but it slowly dawned on me how easy it made my working life compared to what had gone before – and it saved us lots of money too when compared to buying separate apps from multiple vendors. So Neil's comments certainly ring bells with me!

It's strange people get upset about paying money for a 'virtual' product that has taken billions of dollars to develop over the years and knock it for all sorts of reasons. Without MS and the PC there would be no affordable computing (or the Internet – so perhaps not a complete blessing). It was because the PC was effectively an open hardware platform that competition drove down prices. My first 286 AT (from IBM) cost nearly four grand altogether (a lot more money back then!).

And whilst I'm having a bit of a rant in this area – I do get fed up with the Microsoft knockers who bang on all the time about how dreadful MS is – but seem perfectly happy to get ripped off by Apple. Apple may make very nice products but they are not cheap nor are they 'open' in any sense of the word (from a hardware or software perspective) as my sons have learnt.

.

Ian,

I deliberately avoided bringing Apple into this conversation, but I would like to mention that I watched as Microsoft callously manipulated the office-software market and emerged triumphant. [Dave 's-o-d' described it very well in his recent post]. For example: Lotus SmartSuite was a perfectly good product, but was effectively killed by Microsoft's skill in the art of war: Excel would import 123 files beautifully, but 'struggled' to export in that format [and similar for the other products in the two suites] … Somehow this 'difficulty' helped lead many businesss to adopt MS Office as their preferred product.

There are many thiings I don't like about the Microsoft products, but the aspect that I like least is, the way that Microsoft does business.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by IanT on 11/09/2016 09:06:08:

…

Without MS and the PC there would be no affordable computing (or the Internet – so perhaps not a complete blessing). It was because the PC was effectively an open hardware platform that competition drove down prices.

…

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 11/09/2016 09:06:41

A common misunderstanding!

The PC was IBM's reluctant entry into an already burgeoning Microprocessor market. At the time profits from selling traditional mainframes and mainframe services were being seriously undermined by competition from minicomputer makers. It was fairly obvious as 8-bit microprocessors joined the gamethat not only could money be made from these devices, but that their future potential was huge. They were a major source of competition and opportunity.

Above all else the IBM PC made the Personal Computer respectable to accountants. The idea that it wasd supported by the world's most successful computer company meant that decision makers could buy them in large numbers without having to argue the case for buying the same thing from an unknown start-up. (They were confident about IBM's future even though IBM's accounts were starting to indicate the need for major restructuring.)

IBM didn't have an operating system for their new PC but there were two candidates they could buy in. CP/M-86 was in pole position. It was based on by far the most popular microprocessor operating system, CP/M-80. The other candidate was the much less well known MS-DOS. Back then Microsoft was a tiny company best known for their successful BASIC interpreter and compiler.

The story goes that that Digital Research's Gary Kildall was on the golf course when IBM rang to offer him the contract and, over-confident of his position, he gave them the run-around. IBM weren't impressed with DR and went to Microsoft instead.

My point is that neither IBM or Microsoft was essential to the development of personal computing. There were and are plenty of alternatives that would have put us more-or-less where we are today. A slight twist of history might have us all bashing evil corporate Linux at the expense of the brave little Microsoft and their Open Source offering.

What's most interesting to me is that technical merit often plays such a relatively minor part in events. Money, politics, risk, greed, chance, ignorance and emotion were all more significant factors in the PC revolution, at least from where I was standing.

None of this is new. James Watt got nowhere until he was partnered by Matthew Boulton. Boulton's access to money and his credibility in the marketplace were essential to trigger the steam revolution. It's why successful salesmen get paid more than successful techies. What people believe is more important than what people know.

Cheers,

Dave

[Dr AlParticipant @dral]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2016 08:26:34:

I think I've learned my lesson.

It's clear that the variations in people's individual computer setups/antivirus etc.mean that hobbyists won't be able to afford to pay for security certificates from Microsoft or have the resources to 'beta test' their programs with hundreds of volunteers and then bundle any essential DLLs etc. and set up the programs with a fully featured installer.

I think, therefore, that in future I had best politely turn down any more offers of utilities for readers.

Neil (and others),

Like many others on this thread I tried and failed to get screwmez running. However, in my case I suspect that it is due my lack of a Windows PC and hence trying to get it to work through an emulator. I accept that this is part of the problem with not being a Windows user, but as it looked like such a good idea for a tool, I decided to go with an alternative solution: make my own cross-platform version.

I've written a first attempt at re-implementing screwmez in javascript so that it will run on any modern operating system with a reasonable web browser. The implementation is here:

**LINK**

A few caveats:

• It's had very little real-world testing (I'm hoping a few readers of MEW will try it out and let me know of problems…);
• I've never used screwmez (as described above) so I don't know for certain whether it does the same thing – I've based it on the screenshots in the magazine and the equations from my copy of Machinery's Handbook;
• I haven't found (or worked out) equations for minimum and maximum wire size – I've found equations specific to UNC and Whitworth threads, but nothing for BA or (more usefully) generic to a given thread angle;
• It was knocked together over the course of one evening, so there may be plenty of other mistakes – please be gently in your criticism!

I'd obviously welcome any comments, corrections, suggestions etc (although preferably through the comments form on my website as I'll probably see the comments somewhat quicker than if they're posted here). Also if anyone has any requests for other similar calculators, then please get in touch (preferably with the required equations as figuring them out is by far the hardest bit!).

Al

[Author]

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