Scorchio!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Pete. on 19/07/2022 20:01:23:

What is it about British people complaining about the weather?

12 months of the year complaining about the rain, then we get half an inch of snow and people behave like it's a 6 foot snow storm, then we get a couple of weeks of nice weather and……the complaining starts again, stick a couple of beers in the fridge and enjoy it.

As for the global warming, we were taught at school global warming would melt the ice, which would then cool the Gulf stream down making western Europe a bit cooler with other parts of the world getting warmer, has the theory changed since then?

No, ironically, the failure of the North atlantic conveyor and an ice zge remains a possibility.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Late evening and we have some rain, just a spatter at the moment here on the North Downs.

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

It is winter here in Sydney and my workshop is about 11 degrees. We are having an extremely wet winter. I’ve recorded 337 mm so far for July. Leather shoes, bags and belts have grown mould. That last happened in 87/88. We are on track for the wettest year on record. Climate change, we are told. We had terrible bushfires in 2019, probably the worst ever, due to climate change. The UKs record heat is climate change in action. I thought climate change was going to make it hotter and drier, but now it seems that it results in extremes of weather: heat, drought, floods, storms, cyclones etc..

Sabine Hoffenfelder has a good YouTube video on the difference between weather and climate predictions. In another video she concludes from the literature that the best thing one can do to minimise impact on the climate is not have children. The next best thing is to not have a car, but that is vastly less effective than the former. So far, I have not heard the activists clamouring for people to stop breeding. No complaints either about our huge levels of immigration, even though most migrants will have a bigger, probably much bigger, carbon foot print here than in their home countries of China, India, Pacific Islands, and the Middle East and Africa.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Clive –

I bow to your maritime experience but I'd always thought the Roaring Forties are in the Southern latitudes, and the Equator is straddled by the often-calm Doldrums that could leave sailing-ships stuck there for days or weeks on end?

That's why you noticed no winds on the Equator – that was normal.

Volcanic activity? Interesting one. I don't know about frequency, but I do know that although volcanic activity itself is not connected to the climate, nor to anything humanity does, the dust hurled into the atmosphere by very large eruptions can have short-term cooling effects on the climate. "Short" in human history, that is, not in any physical geography sense.

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We had a brief, low-energy thunderstorm this afternoon here (S. Dorset) but it did not bring much rain.

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Neil –

I think that basic principle still applies but the mechanisms are effects are a lot more complicated and difficult to predict than that simple model suggests.

We are still in an Ice Age now, though!

An Ice Age is a sequence of climatic oscillations with a period of at least a hundred thousand years (which is short, geologically), between the frigid Glacial and warm Interglacial, stages. The natural rates of change may be high, over only some hundreds or thousands of years, with a lot of ripple effects; but the Earth's general climate is presently cool!

That has two implications.

Firstly that it may continue to warm for some while yet, and stay warm for millennia, with accompanying higher sea-levels (I think the last Interglacial sea level reached about 10m above present).

Secondly, that whatever we are doing to the climate is "only" hastening the inevitable, to an extent far more rapid than it might otherwise be; with possible significant effects disastrous to Mankind maybe in several decades or a century or so, not tens of centuries.

Also, whilst we might slow our own effects on the climate; there nothing at all humanity can do to stop natural climate change. IF humans ever see the end of the Ice Age as a whole, they will occupy a world our species and its ancestors have never previously known. The hominids originated in Africa but much of the time since, including all of that of H. Sapiensis (us lot), has been and still is, an Ice Age.

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A sobering thought, and you might ask how early humans and their Neanderthal parallels fared then through the last Interglacial and Glacial.

Quite simply, it was relatively far easier for them than it will ever be for us. Although one idea why poor old H. Neanderthalis died out as species, is or was that they were unable to adapt, for unknown reasons.

There were far fewer for a start, and they had none of our intricate, inter-dependent, often very fractious and overall very artificial societies, nations and other constructs. That is not to say that they lived some sort of bucolic "noble savage" lives as a Victorian anthropologist might have painted them. Anything but. Instead, like the other fauna and flora around them, they would have drifted to more equable regions in the much longer times that natural climate-change would have made available to them – not so much as individuals of course, but as "herds" over many generations.

If a climate-change brought steps rapid enough for human memory, obviously they would have noticed it: "Your great-great-grandad used to hunt over that bit that's now under the sea". Or "they say that bit used to be under the sea". It would probably not have affected them very much though. They would have moved inland and uphill a bit, or to more comfortable regions, along with the animals their ancestors liked to eat.

We modern 'oomans don't, or our descendant won't, have that luxury….

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 19/07/2022 22:17:15:

Posted by Pete. on 19/07/2022 20:01:23:

What is it about British people complaining about the weather?

12 months of the year complaining about the rain, then we get half an inch of snow and people behave like it's a 6 foot snow storm, then we get a couple of weeks of nice weather and……the complaining starts again, stick a couple of beers in the fridge and enjoy it.

As for the global warming, we were taught at school global warming would melt the ice, which would then cool the Gulf stream down making western Europe a bit cooler with other parts of the world getting warmer, has the theory changed since then?

No, ironically, the failure of the North atlantic conveyor and an ice zge remains a possibility.

That sounds familiar to what we were taught, global warming would for us here in western Europe mean the warm air blowing over from the gulf stream would cool down and while many parts of the world would notice higher temperatures, we'd gradually get a bit a cooler.

Sadly the environmental issue has been heavily politicised and information completely contradicting this is often presented as proof of global warming.

Regardless of anyone's opinion on global warming, industrial waste going into the ocean, thousands of coal powered power stations, and plastics entering the food source via sealife isn't a good thing.

Unfortunately the throw away society of short lifespan consumer goods only seems to be getting worse, how do you convince people to not buy cheap low life span goods and spend a few more quid on things that will last and have been produced in an environment that handles industrial waste responsibly? It's difficult people like cheap stuff.

Edited By Pete. on 23/07/2022 01:07:14

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

I've been watching the Tour de France and have noticed that no house roofs have solar panels, and when the Tour of Spain starts in September you will notice the same. These are countries that have a great deal more sun and are warmer, free power no fossil fuel needed.

If the general public are really worried about global warming, and I don't think they are or the Council they should be investing in friendly cycle ways. I have in my life time cycled over 200,000 miles and use to with my wife do our shopping. I now have stopped cycling as its to dangerous for me to use the road, these large vehicles, drug use and mobile phones. When I say drugs I mean medication, as strong pain killers state, don't take if this affect your driving.

We are a want want society and this is why I think the masses don't give a toss about global warming. My opinion.

Bob

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Bob, having visited Turkey and Spain onemof the things I noticed that they had solar water heaters on the roofs and in gardens.

These solar panels and tank follow the pattern of the Israeli ones, a sloping panel with tubes against a black panel and a header tank piped down to the house, all very free and neat apart from the initial cost.

Edited By Clive Hartland on 23/07/2022 08:41:48

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

One of the most useful things we could do right now is plant trees along walkways and on any spaces in our cities

Basically create as many tree lined places as possible because trees absorb huge amounts of energy

But councils are cutting inner city trees down because they claim they are too expensive to maintain, and when a tree gets in the way of a building project a council muppet declares that this tree has sponylitis zenomorphis and down it comes, easy peasy

The system will never work properly while you have a bunch of moneygrubbing crooks self declaring themselves as the responsible persons in charge

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Its currently at around 39C in the shade outside our house right now (Romania) – not uncommon for the past 4 or 5 years. We use the siesta method to avoid the worst of the heat, and also keep all doors/windows/curtains closed during the day, followed by everything open overnight from late evening – living room is currently at 26C, having heated up from 22 to 26 in 6 hours from 8 o'clock to 2, so reasonably tolerable.

We also have a water heater system similar to that described by Clive Hartland above – this is simply a header tank for 15 concentric glass tubes – its installed on our woodshed roof, with the pipes down the roof – this is connected to one of the indoor boiler heating spirals, and flow assisted by a small pump (about 10W). This provides us with more free hot water than we can use at up to 75C – and has been doing so since around late April (and will do until at least the end of September – after that, it continues to provide "pre-heating' for the electrical or wood-burning heater until maybe early December. Cost of this system was around 150 pounds sterling, and easy to install.

4 Solar panels driving a 5 kW inverter provide most of the electrical power we need during the day. It has a 'pure sinewave' output at 235VAC, so is able to drive electric motors, unlike the 'step waveform inverters', so this takes care of the washing machine/fridges. This has several deep-discharge batteries also attached, which provide electricity overnight.

Result of all this is that our electricity bills are negligible from April to October, and we have halved the consumption of firewood (the only viable heating medium where we live) over what we used before installation of these systems.

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