Sandown photos and thoughts on the show

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Our club can't get enough people interested enough to man a stand at MEX these days because there is not enough thre to make it worth their effort. Years ago half the club at least would go to a show and we could fill a 50 seat coach to go to the midlands show. Although I spent 5 hours at the show last time I gave someone a lift he got round it in an hour and that probably applies ot a lot of people who are not show addicts.
I go both for the trade (saving postage and actually seeing the product) and to see the models. I have bought 2 lathes and a mill at the show. and most other tooling too.

Exhibitors want good van access and parking too. MES – parking good, access bad. Ally Pally parking bad access bad, Olympia and Earls court and Horticultural hall, access good parking very bad. I remember a version of the Midlands show somewhere nearish Silverstone that was good for both parking and access but miles from anywhere.

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

It's not just model engineering shows that are in decline. I work in the IT industry and we are facing similar issues.
Very high stand costs, very high commitment in the form of time to man the booth and dwindling attendances with difficult to quantify return on investment. I didn't go to Sandown this year, I went last year and found the journey (from Oxford) didn't really justify it. The exhibits were great and I had some good conversations on some of the club stands. I came away very inspired. A couple of guys described as the youngest person there, which was flattering (I was 49 at the time). I would do Harrogate again though, as although a trek, I could drop the wife shopping and have a nice weekend in the Dales.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

I can remember standing in the queue for Model Engineering Show outside Wembley Conference Centre, in the cold, in the show, bursting to use the loo!, in the late 1970s early ‘80s?. The Model Engineering Shows held there were great, encompassing many hobbies under one circular roof. Googled some video footage of that time, bringing back great memories, of Cox Baby Bee 0.49 Glow Engines, Mardave RC cars, Corsair RC planes, etc..non of which I could afford at the time, but great to see

There was no internet then. Attendance at the shows was great!. It really did feel like a golden opportunity to see, get some knowledge and acquire.

Now days, it is all too easy to get what you want at a click of a button. Does it feel the same? Don’t know for sure. Most of the hobby shops I knew in North to North West London are all gone. Internet it king, and we are part of it, be it for the good or the bad.

AliPali is an ‘iconic’ venue. It covers many hobbies. Londeners love it. If MTM decide to ‘re-encompass’ all the hobbies within their group into one event, perhaps it may work and attract more visitors, especially if it was North of London somewhere upto Watford Junction or even St.Albens may be?

Our findings are that many of our customers enter a hobby such as Maker/RC Car/Plane etc., and later turn to Model Engineering in some way. If all are under one roof, the transition could possibly become easier.

As a trader/seller, would we come?…probably not. Sad I know, but still, probably not.

Is it about the costs?…No. If the show organizers bring in the numbers, which some of them do and some don’t, then it is up to the trader to have the products which the customers may want.

When we started in this business, the internet was less established. Ebay was still in its infancy, our business was really small. To operate a stand cost around £1000.00. As we grew – thanks to your support, by the time we stopped doing the shows, our show running costs were about £10,000~£13,000, after taking all factors into consideration.

Beside us, our direct U.K. competitors have grown too, offering the same or similar products, along with legitimate Ebay and non-tax paying under invoicing Ebay and direct sellers from the Far East. Many on this forum are aware of them, and many of you use them too. I might use them too I if I was doing this as a hobby.

By the time we came out of doing the shows, ME exhibitions accounted for about 20% of our revenue with zero profit.

Still, I personally loved the shows. It was a great opportunity to meet old customers and introduce ourselves to new potential customers. Many of our old customers are more like friends rather than customers.

OK, so we have established that it is not always about the money. Positives established, and now the negatives:

– We are all selling the same thing, so prices can be tight and buyer is king. Acceptable and un-acceptable negotiations are considered which are sometimes stressful when you say ‘NO’ to the potential buyer who quotes competitors, Ebay, ‘rip-off British sellers’ etc..
– Machine competitors bitching, bullcrapping especially about machines is a regular issue. Our version of an honest statement is sometimes contested, resulting in again – stressful situations developing, especially when new entrants from another hobby, with no experience of engineering consider your comments to be false in comparison to other four competitors. Lets not go there

So, as the saying goes, if you can’t stand the heat….

– There is also a logistical issue to be considered. Shutting down, stock control, losing internet business have all been discussed by me in earlier posts. As I mentioned earlier, money is not everything. ‘Health’ is a seriously big issue for ALL the traders, as well as some of the organizers. All getting older by the day. I have great respect for the traders who attend. Many of the traders are on various tablets during the show. Some of us also visit local hospital A&Es to get pain killers…standing in a queue, saying hello and asking each other of our ailments while we wait. Ahhhh I hear you say…it must be a result of all that money we are taking from you …..Sorry to disappoint. As the business grows, there is more work involved in putting on a show. More products to bring, with hope that another competitor will not have the same thing at a lower price than you…only to find that you may or may not come back with half the goods you took, with some products not selling at all.
– Also remember, the organizers do have a serious and moral? part to play in this. ALL organizors talk about putting on a ‘balanced show’ when pitching a stand to traders. This can be taken with a pinch of salt. They obviously want to please you, and will take on most new competitors. Nothing wrong with that – from your point of view. However, how is this any good for me when I find someone new selling the same thing at the show at a lower price?. What happened to the ‘balanced show’ statement at that time?….Sour grapes may be?….I wonder if you would say that if it happened to you??

So again, as the saying goes…

I seriously hope that the shows continue. I really do wish them well. ARC may or may not attended, in some form. At present, unfortunately we don’t think we will.

Ketan at ARC.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Ketan;

If

a) Showing your face and "glad handing" is important (which it is)

b) Moving stock from your store to a show is expensive in many ways:

why not take the smallest booth you can? Bring your catalogues, a computer for ordering on-line, even a small mill or something solely for display. (or at a discount if someone wants to cart it home for you at the end of the show)

It seems like everyone is understanding that, due to spiralling costs and diminishing profits, that these large shows must change.

You seem like a personable chap, I'm sure that the face to face that you (and, any of your competitors) bring to the show would result in people treating your company more as a "friend" than "just another on-line store"

Walk around with an ARC Eurotrade tee shirt on, make them colourful, and even give some away to anyone who orders something fairly large from your at-show internet tied-computer system.

See you at the next MEX – JohnS, Canada.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi JohnS, Canada,

The suggestions you made are valid, and have been discussed/debated at various points in previous posts, as well as with show organisers. There is no clear resolution at present moment in time. The business is evolving in a way which needs to be kept in control. If and when there are certain changes made/adoped in our business and/or excess capacity, we might re-visit the events in some form.

Until then, I hope to bump into you as a visitor at one of the shows, or, you are always welcome to come and visit us at Leicester.

Ketan at ARC.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 23/12/2014 19:40:25

[Gordon Smith 1Participant @gordonsmith1]

Perhaps we should ask our German friends as they seem able to organize large,well attended exhibitions;eg Sinsheim.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Gordon Smith 1 on 23/12/2014 21:06:26:

Perhaps we should ask our German friends as they seem able to organize large,well attended exhibitions;eg Sinsheim.

.

I think thats a bit apples and oranges as it's a different discipline.

Few years ago at Ally Pally I was talking to a guy with a tools stand, not the pound type stuff but decent and asked him how he was doing. He replied not bad but we do better in a few weeks as apparently the model rail show is held about 3 weeks later but different organiser.

'Our' Ally Pally is held in one hall for 3 days, the main hall used to hold a boxing match on the Saturday night but now holds the snooker all the while our show is on.

What he was saying is that he had 3 stalls in one hall and three weeks later he had 5 stalls in two halls and paid less for the pitch.

So either the organisers have it wrong or having a larger space attracts more people which allows them to lower costs.

I cannot possibly comment.

[JonBerkParticipant @jonberk]

As a non-attendee at Sandown, reading this has made me think about the shows and where they are, that I do attend.

I live in the perfect area from which to visit Sandown, Ally Pally, Bristol and the Midlands Show. The shows I do visit are Ally Pally and Bristol and occasionally the Midlands and rarely Sandown. A major reason for me and my friends not going to Sandown is the venue which I find doesn’t have the ‘atmosphere’ of the other shows. This is largely because of the shape of the halls. All the shows have roughly similar reasons to visit but Sandown appears to have less of all of them.

I wonder if the Sandown exhibition is in the wrong place. Looking at where the exhibitions are held in the country you can see they all have a population centre to draw visitors from. Sandown, apart from London where it competes directly with Ally Pally, does not.

One high population area which does not have a big show is the South Coast from Portsmouth along to Poole. Moving the ME exhibition into that area could attract more visitors than Sandown. The ME and MEW magazine sales records must show where the sales are in the country. Using that information it should be possible to work out which area would be most likely to support the ME exhibition.

There one other major reason why the number of visitors is falling and that is what I would call ‘the lost generation’. When I was apprenticed, not as an engineer, the machines I worked on and serviced and the cars and motorcycles I owned, were ‘mechanical’. All of my friends were doing similar training with ‘mechanical’ machinery. My son, in his mid thirties, is the only one of his group of friends that has completed an apprenticeship.

This, to me, means that visitor numbers to exhibitions must fall as the number older visitors ‘falling off the perch’ are not replaced by a new generation. To counter this as much as possible the exhibitions must be attractive and in the right place.

John H

[Michael CheckleyParticipant @michaelcheckley34085]

Being close to London made the journey to Sandown and a weekend away a little more justifiable. If the show was moved to somewhere that had less surrounding attractions I probably would not be able to attend. My guess is that having two shows in a similar area at roughly the same time of year is not helping.

With regards to traders I can see that having multiple traders selling the same things will mean tough competition and also a less interesting shopping experience. Warco and RDG seem to be the only traders now selling this range of goods and always look busy, most if not all of my tooling is bought used and probably older than me Personally I would like to see more of the kit/casting manufactures. If I see a finished model that I like and the kit is there for sale I am more likely to buy on the day.

I like the idea of Sandown being a 'centre of excellence' for displays and competition so perhaps this is the direction the show needs to go in….

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The SMEE lectures are clearly popular – the 3D-printing one was packed to the rafters at Sandown.

A genuine question – would people be keen top see more presentations, training, advice and hands-on activities – not that I have a cunning plan as to how these could be provided.

Neil

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

The SMEE lectures have always proved to be very popular. I have given several over the years and also illustrated demonstrations on the SMEE stand. It is these lectures and the competition which allows the MEX to stand head and shoulders above all the rest. This is why the MEX is considered by many,across the world, as the centre of excellence for model engineering. It is NOT just another show.

BUT PLEASE find a better location next year. Just beside the catering area is simply not good enough.

Mike

[Michael CheckleyParticipant @michaelcheckley34085]

Demonstrations of different techniques would be excellent. Lectures are good but no substitute for a physical demo. Useful subjects that come to mind include thread cutting, parting off, knurling. Usually the things that give a model the more professional touch.
More advanced subjects could include hardening and tempering and the application of different CNC codes.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Posted by Michael Checkley on 24/12/2014 20:35:35:
Demonstrations of different techniques would be excellent. Lectures are good but no substitute for a physical demo.

Agreed – my 2nd day at the Exhibition was spent (at least a good part of it) with Bob Bramson and his injector test stand, and the ornamental turning people, and talking to the guild of model wheelwrights.

The model railway people (at least over here in Canada) have a good lecture programme, which is always very well attended.

I'm sure that you could multiply by 10 the number of lectures that were presented at the MEX, and still have requests for more.

JohnS (a volunteer lecturer, whether graphics programming, using graphics chips for general programming, or live steam model engineering or … )

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

I was a bit disappointed with the show due to lack of manufacturers present. I made the journey from Worcester to see the Warco stand . You can say I should have read the programme first. Even so I enjoyed the lecture on 3D printing and have actually placed an order for one. Most of my time was spent in the "makers" area chatting to the stall holders, and was impressed by the enthusiasm shown on some of the "smaller" stands and their willingness to talk.

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