Sanderson Beam Engine

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

understood, but a steam engine without steam isnt a steam engine (IMHO), plus it wont smell right!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What does steam smell like?

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Hot oil and sulpherous fumes – I fully understand where Fizzy is coming from

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

So no gas firing then

Like Rod most of mine are destined for air (except the IC engines) but all made so they could run on steam. I think the only one that I have put steam to is my Stuart Beam but holding a blowlamp under the Mamod did not do it's paintwork much good

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

For mr the hissing and dripping along with the smell is what its all about.

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Rod

It looks like your castings are the same as mine were except that your base appears to be CI were as mine is Ali.

If your castings are the same vintage as mine one thing you might want to check is the top cyl. cover. I found that the distance between the piston rod and valve rod gland bosses was about 3/16" too short. So I cut it in half just shy of the valve rod boss and silver soldered a piece of steel ~3/16" wide between the two pieces to give the required 1" dimension between the piston rod and valve rod. See pics.

John

 

Edited By John Purdy on 25/03/2016 20:22:44

Edited By John Purdy on 25/03/2016 20:24:26

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Rod or anyone else with these drawings

On the Blackgates drawings for the Sanderson does the pin, on the arm on the end of the valve shaft, that engages with the locking lever on the end of the eccentric rod disconnect unit have a groove turned in it for a slot in the locking lever to slide into to connect the eccentric rod to the valve shaft? My drawings show a flat on the pin and a flat on the lever to mate with it. I can see this only working if the pin is free to rotate in the arm which I think would be hard to accomplish with no slop in this size.

John Purdy

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

John,

I'm not really familiar enough with this engine at present to fully understand the bits you are referring to. Is this the part you mean?

Thanks for the heads up on the cylinder cover, mine looks OK.

Even my baseplate is bronze – I suspect the scrap value may be more than I paid for the castings

Rod

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Rod

Yes that's part of it. What I would like to know is does the 1/8" pin on the valve cross rod that the eccentric rod valve end and latching lever fit on to have a groove in it for the latching lever to fit into. It appears from your drawing that it must as the latching lever has a 3/32" round ended slot in it, whereas my drawing shows it flat.

John

[Bob JohnstoneParticipant @bobjohnstone29549]

Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum, so please forgive any lapse of etiquette.

This seems to be one of the only, thread regarding the 1/12 scale Sanderson beam engine produced by Clarkson & Son.

Some time ago I was donated a box of stuff by an old engineer, and amongst the contents was a partially assembled Sanderson (mostly the cast parts) on a makeshift wooden base and a full set of drawings + a company catalogue. On closer inspection (after chasing all the spiders out) it would appear that all of the brass parts are missing; whether robbed for scrap or just separated from the kit and never passed along, at sometime in the past, I'll never know.

I've already helped out a chap in America by sending him the blueprints to copy and return. I thought I would 'spread the love' so to speak, and offer up the same to anyone on here who needs a set of original blueprints to work from. I know there is a new classified 'want' ad for these, but the site won't allow me, being a new subscriber, to view or respond to that person. Perhaps, if he's on here regularly, he will know who I mean and make contact through this thread.

There is too much missing from this model for it to be a feasible project for my retirement, as I now live in a tiny flat with no workshop space. So I will have to pass it along to someone with the facilities to resurrect it back to working condition. This isn't an advert for it – I don't want to break any forum rules, but if someone on here with more experience could advise me on how to go about selling what I've got, it would be most appreciated.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think Blackgates still hold the copyright to these drawings and may not be too happy with you spreading the love.

They can also supply any missing bronze castings.

[Maurice Cox 1Participant @mauricecox1]

If these are Clackson's castings, beware of chill spots! I built their table engine many years ago, and they were a nightmare, especially to a novice. I didn'tb know about cooking the castings in a solid fuel stove to anneal them. Also, if you wish to refer to the original drawings, I believe they were published in "The engineer and machineist's assistant" about 1845. The Science Museum library has a copy.

Maurice Cox.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 24/03/2016 17:54:44:

Well, I had the drawings; now I've got the castings – from ebay

A nice evocative photo. Look at that and think of the years of pleasure before you finally make a start

Neil

[Bob JohnstoneParticipant @bobjohnstone29549]

Posted by JasonB on 10/08/2016 18:26:42:

I think Blackgates still hold the copyright to these drawings and may not be too happy with you spreading the love.

They can also supply any missing bronze castings.

I think the term 'copyright' in this situation would apply to me trying to pass the blueprints off as my own design or copying for monetary gain. Making a free photocopy of them hardly constitutes infringement, but perhaps there's a lawyer in the house who could correct me.

[Bob JohnstoneParticipant @bobjohnstone29549]

Posted by Maurice on 10/08/2016 18:35:24:

If these are Clackson's castings, beware of chill spots! I built their table engine many years ago, and they were a nightmare, especially to a novice. I didn'tb know about cooking the castings in a solid fuel stove to anneal them. Also, if you wish to refer to the original drawings, I believe they were published in "The engineer and machineist's assistant" about 1845. The Science Museum library has a copy.

Maurice Cox. When I said it was mostly the castings, these aren't raw ones. They're all painted up in the original colours, which I assume (from their catalogue) means that these were part of the factory kit, finished and ready to assemble. The drawings have a date of 1968 on them, so I don't think the model itself can be much younger.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It is generally said to be OK to make copies for your own personal use, making copies for others is not whether for free or payment.

There is nothing wrong with selling on the original drawings.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Bob Johnstone on 11/08/2016 08:48:00:

I think the term 'copyright' in this situation would apply to me trying to pass the blueprints off as my own design or copying for monetary gain. Making a free photocopy of them hardly constitutes infringement, but perhaps there's a lawyer in the house who could correct me.

Copyright is very definitely intended to stop people photocopying/scanning things and giving away free copies.

You are unlikely to get in trouble for something that is no longer available, but where someone is still selling the plan each copy you give away potentially deprives them of a paying customer -and they will have paid the original designer for the right to sell those plans.

Please don't use this website to distribute pirate drawings (ours or any other publisher) – the internet threatens to make the sale of model engineering plans unviable and in the long term the result could be that many rare designs are lost for ever.

Neil

Neil

[Bob JohnstoneParticipant @bobjohnstone29549]

Then I stand corrected. IT seems you guys are more knowledgeable about the law than I. I withdraw my offer to share what I have for free. You can go buy them from the copyright owner. Life was so much more friendly in the 20th century…

[Bill WaltonParticipant @billwalton87753]

I just bought a very nice Sanderson Beam engine of Peter Wares grandson on eBay. I posted a video on YouTube at

I also bought the planes from Blackgates.

I have done extensive research on the background of the Sanderson Beam engine. and have several links that might be of interest. There is a version of the full size engine in Germany Museum Industriekultur Osnabrück and another Model from a German model maker von Lothar Matrian. There are pictures of Eckart Kerchers models as well.

http://www.eckartkercher.de/index_seiten/frerichs.htm

One original UK full size engine was at the Frerichs Wadsworth, Springfield Mental Hospital.

Ther german full size is know as J. Frerichs & Co.: Dampfmaschine

http://www.albert-gieseler.de/dampf_de/maschinen5/dampfdet53041.shtml

**LINK**

[Bill WaltonParticipant @billwalton87753]

I'll try to attach some pictures. eckart kercher

[Bill WaltonParticipant @billwalton87753]

The , Osnabrück Museum is now researching how what we call the Sanderson Beam engine ended up in Germany.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Osnabr%C3%BCck_-_Museum_Industriekultur-_Dampfmaschinen_02_ies.jpg

You'll notice small differences between the German and UK engine. It is said that the original model was from a plate in Blackies publication “The Engineer and Machinist's Assistant”, 1840s. H. Clarkson & Son had designed their model after Plate XVII in volume 2

[Bill WaltonParticipant @billwalton87753]

•This research started with my purchase of the Peter Ware Model Sanderson Beam Engine.

•It was easy to find 30 or more similar models on the web, but I did not find any similar full size engines.

•The research proceeded backwards from my model to the present day retailer and to the original model designer H. Clarkson & Son which was made from the 1840s plate.

[Bill WaltonParticipant @billwalton87753]

•I had contacted quite a few British Museums and several passed my request on.

•John McGoldrick (via a friend George )had seen a similar steam engine in "Stationary Steam Engines of Great Britain" Vol 8 fig 85. p132 Made by F.C. Baker in 1870 This was the first picture of an original full size engine of the same design which was in use at the Wadsworth, Springfield Mental Hospital, F.C. Baker

•John McGoldrick suggest I contact Chris Hodrien at the ISSES (International Stationary Engine Society)

•Incidentally the Sanderson Co. went bankrupt in 1844.

[Bill WaltonParticipant @billwalton87753]

•Surprisingly I ran across a similar model in Germany build by Eckartkercher. Eckartkercher referred me to the German model designer, Lothar Matrian.

•Lothar Matrian Model was designed after a full size engine which is at the Museum Industriekultur Osnabrück.

[Bill WaltonParticipant @billwalton87753]

•The Museum Industriekultur Osnabrück has possibly the only existing full size engine of this type.

•I am very grateful for help from two very knowledgeable people, Chris (R.C.) Hodrien and Adam Harris from Camden Miniature Steam Services

Adam’s set me on the path to a Blackies publication “The Engineer and

[Author]

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