Sable 2015 Desktop CNC / engraver

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Starting new thread to cover this following article in MEW 347 and topic https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/mew-347/ to get it into place under CNC and make it searchable without clutter.

Also relevant threads : https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/3018-cnc-router-digitizer-laser-cutter-modifications-and-upgrades/

and https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/bed-for-6040-cnc/

It seems the Sable may be obsolete. However the key features are that it is so much smaller and therefore possibly more rigid than a 3018 and it uses a separate spindle and motor instead of putting an ER holder on the end of a motor again for more rigidity.
It seems therefore that a construction article on such a spindle is ideal ME content.
Also perhaps a second hand 3018 or collection of parts could be made into a smaller unit.

Even 2015 is bigger than most of the parts I would make by cnc (2015 is shorthand for 200mmx150mm) and I could get away with 50×50, well certainly 100×100.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think construction goes a long way towards rigidity. The very cheap 3020 machines are not as capable of the better more solidly made ones. Much the same as a modern benchtop machine is not as rigid as old iron.

Also consider that your gantry needs to be able to span over the work plus any clamps or vice being used to hold it so another 50mm each side of your 50×50 part is not unreasonable unless you are just going to work on thin material that can be glued down.

Worth looking at some of the unpowered or even powered spindles that have the ER integral to the spindle, depends how much of a project you want it to be or whether you want to just get cutting.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Google’s AI overview did rather well:

MichaelG.

.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

https://www.instructables.com/Sable-2015-CNC-Arduino-GRBL-LunchBox-CNC/

 

Suggestion: Grab these images before they disappear

https://itm.ebaydesc.com/itmdesc/191674887192?t=1387177495000&category=57122&seller=lukechan66&excSoj=1&ver=0&excTrk=1&lsite=0&ittenable=false&domain=ebay.com&descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk=2&secureDesc=0

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

 

http://www.remarkable-rings.com/blog/new-improved-desktop-cnc-machine

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I don’t use facebook myself, but this appears to be the place to look:

https://www.facebook.com/sablecncUS/

MichaelG.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Easy to underestimate how big a cnc machine you need. My little Novamill is great but I would really like to be able to engrave a 300mm clock dial in one go. I found a way but tricky and risky.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I was also struck by the seperate spindle and motor arrangement and have been toying with a similar idea.

I have a Taig milling head that would mount without too much effort on my Fox Alien 3020 router. The current spindle is 300W but the ER11 chuck projects quite a bit and the Taig would be a much better solution. Not sure about the weight though…

Agree with author though, still learning new software and other things – CNC is not as simple as 3D print…

Regards,

 

IanT

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

It really worries me that so many of these machines are suppled with component type power supplies. Thes are the ones with perforated metal covers and screw terminals. They are typified by the Mean Well units. They are only supposed to used when they are enclosed in a appropriate case with switching, fuses and filters as required. Without this they are unsafe. It is NOT ok to just connect them up with a bit of mains lead and screw them to the side of a machine.
They feature in the MEW article with no mention, so far, of enclosing them.

I’m not trying to be the health and safety “police” or spoil anyones enjoyment. Getting an electric shock or worse is not enjoyable.

Robert.

 

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Well after ‘getting into’ 3D printing and all it entails I am now going down the CNC router rabbit hole. As others have said the Sable isn’t available so I am looking into alternatives of which there are many.

My modus operandi is to sell of my never to be used again surplus tooling and invest the proceeds back into another interest.

Tony

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

I don’t use facebook myself, but this appears to be the place to look:

https://www.facebook.com/sablecncUS/

MichaelG.

Last posting seems to be August 2019 – so five years old!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Looks like we all missed the opportunity to buy a good product 🙁

MichaelG.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

This “tech” changes constantly Michael.

My Fox Alien was pretty much the best ‘3020’ router you could buy a year or so ago (linear rails + ballscrews on all axis for instance) but things move on. I’d guess the ‘sales life’ of these Chinese-made machines is a year tops, if only because they use volume components that are mass produced in one (maybe two) huge ‘runs’ before completely new ‘updates’ come along.

I experienced this effect many years ago when purchasing high powered PC’s that needed to meet very specific software compatibilities. We specc’ed “named” components (graphics card etc) but got supplied what appeaered to be third party alternatives. It turned out that they were exactly the same, the (US) branded parts were simply badged from the same OEM. The US resellers simply stuck thier own labels on. There was a serious design problem with the motherboard which we reported back, expecting an ECO (fix) to be sent back. It didn’t happen – the OEM had done one ‘run’ of many tens of thousands of that specific board, sold them to PC ‘brand’ names and then moved on to their next motherboarddesign. They had no interest at all in ECOs (Engineering Change orders) that I’d thought of as being the norm within the mini-computer service industry.

In short, it’s most certainly not like a Myford, where the product lasted decades in roughly the same form. 🙂

 

Regards,

 

IanT

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Understood, Ian

I was actually more focussed on the compact and apparently well-executed mechanical details of the Taiwanese offering.

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Indeed Ian. This is a particular problem in the aerospace industry where I work. We have product lifetimes of decades and components that disappear in months. It’s also an issue with outher areas where products have to be appoved. For example medical equipment. If you have to re-certify due to a changed part it can cost millions.

Robert.

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

Easy to underestimate how big a cnc machine you need. My little Novamill is great but I would really like to be able to engrave a 300mm clock dial in one go. I found a way but tricky and risky.

Might be worth looking at photoetching instead.  I did the dial of my Regulator clock that way, just used an inkjet printer to make the master in two parts, applied photoresist film to carefully cleaned brass sheet and exposed it to sunlight (for UV) through the master. then just etched with pcb etching fluid.

Russell

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Thanks Russell, yes I considered that, having seen Clickspring use the approach.  But since I have the mill and the means to generate G code for engraving, it was an interesting challenge to work out a multi-step approach to engrave it, only 3/6/9/12 and the 5 minute marks.  Subsequently I did the 12 numbers on a friend’s dial which already had the minute marks and circles engraved, it was very successful.  For both I mounted a plywood board on the mill table with means to register the plates in repeatable positions.  Engraving also doesn’t need large trays of corrosive liquid which I’d only use once.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I can see that I too might need to occasionally do a big part and maybe go up a bit on my 50mm for clamping. A two machine approach could perhaps share enough parts eg psu, controller/drivers, even some steppers to reduce costs.
Also I wonder if for specific large areas but thin like clock plates and loco frames if a 3020 could be modified taking the gantry arm temporarily down to 15mm above work.
I also think a 3020 instead of doing all the work could just spot all the holes at 1mm, then profile pockets, edges etc with 1mm slot drill just 5thou deep leaving a clear line to drill, file, saw, mill to instead of that fine line in blue. An aid for those with failing eyesight perhaps?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I just use the 1mm cutter for profiling right through and spiral drilling the holes, at least in brass.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

With something long like a loco frame you should just be able to move it on the bed, much like you would do if a part was too long to get at all of it on a milling machine. In both cases you just need to ensure it stays lined up and that you pick up from a suitable position for any subsequent set ups.

The limit on the KX-3 is the Y axis which is only abouy 140mm compared with 300 in X. This limits me on things like flywheels unless I do half at a time x 2 sides. It would be nice to have something like 250 x 300 capacity which is more what you get on the likes of the Haas Compact, Syil X5 and Tormach but beggars can’t be choosers.

Don’t forget to allow yourself enough height to change a collet and tools, more if you want to get some form of electronic height setter under the tool. These gantry machines tend to have quite as mall Z range anyway and as John says spiral drilling holes works well though I tend to use stub drills but at 5000rpm Max my spindle is slower than the high speed ones on a gantry that may be too fast for all but the smallest HSS drills.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Note that the popular ER type collet chucks eat daylight under the spindle.  Maybe Arc could commission some extra short ones.  Though I have some ER16 chucks on BT30 tapers which I generally use on the Novamill I also managed to find some BT30 finger collets on AliExpress which are useful for taller work.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

This thread is targeting the lightweight gantries like the Sable, if it were available, then for added area the 3020 and the question of whether they can be used in conventional ME tasks. So ‘desperate measures’ called for to get some added capability as in rigidity if not outright fire and forget CNC.
A gantry does lend itself to repositioning long jobs as Jason suggests though weight (mass for the pedantic) becomes a problem. I think a DRO for the regular mill is a more sensible first purchase really.

Any suggestions for building a Sable style spindle starting with a commonly available ER collet holder? Googling ‘spindles’ only threw up combined motor/collet style. Is the Quorn spindle a good building block? A watchmakers headstock with 8mm collets and drawtube has very little overhang (my Boley is trying to hide under the bench in fear).

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

We did have quite a long thread on making tool post spindles which would do the job as it does not know where it is going to be mounted.

The ER integral to the spindle should eliminate some overhang and as we are talking quite small machines thay should be able to hold most tooling that is likely to be needed even ER11.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Not the thread I was thinking of but may be useful

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The Arrand Engineering milling spindle would probably do nicely, using Morse Taper  draw-in collets.

[ Unfortunately they are fetching high prices these days ]

 

MichaelG.

[Author]

Posts