ruston proctor

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Paul, I think Derek was asking about the valves that control the steam to the lifter and injector which would be globe type.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Paul, so the piping setup for this model, is it going to be safe and correct? If your saying the way it's connected to the steam manifold.

To be honest I'm way off the plumbing yet and even then I'm still not 100% sure what goes where, I'm so glad I joined this forum and met guys who know the engines or I'd be totally stuck.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

My mistake Jason.

Derek, The original piping set up with gauges and injectors attached to the same manifold is the way that it was originally designed and will be safe if operated correctly. But will require you to not use the injector when you are checking the water level.

If you are drawing steam from the manifold (which is also attached to the top of water column) the pressure in the manifold will be lower than the water entering the water column at the bottom. Therefore the water in the glass will rise higher than is in the boiler. You will have to turn off the injector to get a true level of water. It is for this reason that we are not allowed to use a common manifold in Australia. (making it idiot proof). (no comments about Aus. please)

Also left you a PM in your inbox.

Paul.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hey guys, i one quick question.

i have tapped a new pillar i had to make for the boiler fitting, it was 1/4 x40 tpi as instructed but fitting a steam fitting into it, it has lots of play.

now its exactly the same size tap and die, but obvioulsy either the tap or die is slightly different..

it will snug down tight but the amount of slop worrys me, even if it sats 1/4x40tpi is there different types?

Regards Del

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Jason/all

As you helped me on this posting with regards to the piping layout, I have aa quick question please.

On the above piping drawing you can see the steam to injector and water lifter pipes coming from the steam manifold which have globe valve fitted could you explain what these are used for? Is this because you need to shut off a pipe at a specific time? I also can't seem to find this double globe valve layout on other larger ruston proctor, just wanted to check I need to buy two more globe valves.

Regards Derek

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes thats right the injector and water lifter are only used at certain times. The injector when you want to add water to the boiler rather than using the pump. The water lifter would have been used when the engine was on the road to top up from ponds and streams as the name suggests it will lift water up into the tender/tanks. On a model its not really use dlike that but can be linked to a tank in teh driving trolly to give a longer range.

I'm more of a Fowler man but will have a look at some larger R&Ps to see what they have

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Thanks for the response, that's interesting info, so on my engine the injector draws water from the tenders water tank instead.

I was going to plumb in a hand water pump to add water directly from tender through a check valve on the left hand of the boiler instead of a water pump attached to the crank, is this ok? Thanks

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Do I still plumb in the steam to water pump or lifter into Bush C, and the use Bush B to draw water from the bottom of the hand pump?

I'm sure the pipework is really easy once you understand where it all goes and why.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A = Return from crank driven pump bypass. As the pump is pumping all the time the crank is turning to save it overfilling the boiler the bypass globe valve is opened so the water goes back into the tender

B = Water feet to pump. This is the crank driven pump but you could use the handpump from there as you said you wanted to use a handpump.

C = water into tender from Lifter

D = Water supply to injector

E = pannier tanks, assue valve/cock on bottom of tank or in the pipe run

Left Globe Valve = Control of steam to water lifter ( or a steam driven pump) The crank driven pump does not need a steam supply

Right Globe Valve = Control of steam to Injector

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Brilliant explanations, so I can do without the pipework from the left hand of the steam manifold and just blank this hole off?

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

It's just the bit on water into tank from lifter? That be confuses me, sorry to be so stupid..

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

On Bush A which is the crank pump return, as I won't have a crank pump and just a hand pump do I need this pipe and globe valve? Because I can obviously just stop hand pumping anytime.

Or do I have completely the wrong end of the stick.

Regards Derek

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The water lifter has 3 connections, one is steam in, one water in from a flexi hose and the other is wher this water and the condensed steam come out and go into the tender/tank depending where the lifter is situated. The way they work is that as the steam flows past the nozzel inside the lifter it created a vacuum and sucks water in, bit like an airbrush or perfume diffuser where the air passing over teh nozzel picks up teh liquid from the container below and blows out a combination of air/liquid.

I think I said in one of the earlier replies you should have two means of getting water into the boiler and I would be more likely to omit the injector in place of your hand pump than the mechanical pump. But if you are just using it at home you can have one means of feed so blank off whats not used.

The advantage of the mechanical pump is it can be set to gently top up the boiler at approx the same rate that water is being used so you can concentrate on other things and keep things in the boiler reasonably steady. If you just hand pump water in each time the level gets low this large amount of incomming cold water will mix with whats in the boiler and make it colder and therefore you will get a pressure drop and then lack of power until it recovers.

J

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I think having no details of the water lifter on the drawing hasn't helped, but probably normal.

So the water lifter has no pipe to the boiler, I'm learning more..so one pipe connected to the hand pump into the boiler, and another from the injector.

So basically I need one pipe from the manifold down to the water lifter with a globe valve fitted, and another pipe from manifold to injector with globe valve fitted.

What I need really is to find someone willing to show me in person, I will have to try and find someone in my area.

I want to keep the setup as simple as possible, and when I learn more I can possibly add more parts..

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Do all small engines my size use a water lifter?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Derek as I said on the first page of this thread about teh waterlifter

"you are unlikely to use it anyway unless you have a liking for filling the engine from puddles"

Its one of those things you try once when the model is finished to see if it works and really never need to use again.

J

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Ok Jason thanks mate, I'm going to plumb the hand pump into the tender water tank, down the side of the boiler to the left hand clack valve, then on the other side plumb in the injector, once I find the correct one.

As for the steam manifold the steam to the lifter I will blank off and only leave the right hand of the manifold fitted with a pipe and globe valve to the injector.

On the holes not used on the water tank I will blank these off also.

Does all that sound correct? Hoping I'm starting to understand it before you get fed up with me and tell me to go away

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Personally I would go for handpump and mechanical pump but your hand & injector will be OK

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I think what puts me off the mechanical pump is the fact I'm missing so many parts already that finding the pump etc is an extra item to the list, I would need to find the eccentric and machine the pump.

Sounds like I'm being lazy but I'm just trying to keep the engine simple until I fully understand them, I thought if I at least get the poor thing running after years of no life I could then add parts later on.

So may I just ask when you turn the steam on into the injector that forces water into the boiler via the check valve? I searched injectors and notice the seem to have numbers like no 4 injector, how do I know which my model should have? I owe you a drink for your patience and help.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes when the globe valve is opened the flow of steam draws water from the tender and it enters the boiler via the clack (check) valve

As its a small 2" tractor a No 3 (14oz) would probably do the job

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Great, thanks very much.

Without yours and others help on this forum I'd never understand, being only 37 this is my first engine and I hope to build on this one.

Thanks

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I've found a number 2 injector, which provides 11oz of water.

This takes 5/32 pipes which is what the rest if my fittings are, my engine is 2 inch scale but only 24 inches long which to me is more 1 1/2 inch with some other engine's.

Saying that will it be safe to fit a number 2 injector? I could buy a number 3 but would need to but all new fittings?

Regards Derek

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Should do you and as you say easier to plumb in as the pipe sizes are right.

J

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Cool thanks, just one last question and I will just get on with it and leave you be.

Do any pipes need to go to the water tank to add pressure? The injector would draw water by itself from the tender tank?

Regards Derek

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