Rust on New Lathe

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Posted by jimmy b on 12/11/2022 09:53:08:

John,

It could be worth pushing for tooling etc rather than a credit/refund?

For what it's worth, I had hassle with my Chester Crusader when I got that. The upset soon fades once you start cutting metal!

Good luck.

Jim

Exactly!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Not sure of the difference between "pushing for tooling " and a credit note. You would have to spend the credit note with Warco on tooling as that is what they sell and the credit note would have to be redeemed against that..

In fact that credit note could be put towards a mill if you already have tooling for the lathe.

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

The machine in question should have been advertised as shop soiled slight surface rust, or a demonstrated machine with appropriate discounts, that way the buyer knows what he is getting before the packing crate is opened.

MichaelR

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Jack makes some interesting points above. We are really spoilt in the UK, apart from not getting American prices, with the availability of stock and machines. Just look at the posts we see from the USA, Canada and Oz about the distances they often have to travel to get an item It seems like some EU countries don't have a single equivalent to Warco or RDG whatever our moans.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Sakura on 12/11/2022 09:31:13:

If all new Warco lathes come coated in preservative, why didn't this one? Two possibilities spring to my mind – ex demo or returned machine. Not a new machine in either of those possibilities.

In the good old days many buyers of Far Eastern kit complained bitterly that they arrived swathed in 'Chicken Fat', a yellow goo preservative that took a few hours to remove with lashings of WD40. My Warco machines all arrived with a thin wipe of easily removed surface preservative.

The problem with preservatives is how good do they need to be? I guess 'Chicken Fat' is only necessary if machines take a year or more to get from factory to customer. Ketan or Hugh would know, but I guess the supply chain is faster than that, making it unnecessary for kit to be protected heavily. Of course, this risks lighter protection being inadequate if there's a delay or the package is soaked in transit. Both are candidates.

Anyone else had the pleasure of cleaning Cosmoline? Some of the war surplus I bought as a lad arrived triple-wrapped, with the item inside plastered in Cosmoline. Perhaps it was easier to remove when new, and 25 years in a warehouse had solidified it!

Dave

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by jaCK Hobson on 12/11/2022 09:51:30:

Do Amadeal/Arc/Warco/chester hobby actually make much money over last couple of years?

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 12/11/2022 09:53:20

Can’t speak for the others. The answer from ARC is yes but no but. To avoid going 'off topic', happy to elaborate if you want to ask the question as a separate new thread.

Ketan at ARC

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 12/11/2022 10:43:04:

Posted by Sakura on 12/11/2022 09:31:13:

If all new Warco lathes come coated in preservative, why didn't this one? Two possibilities spring to my mind – ex demo or returned machine. Not a new machine in either of those possibilities.

The problem with preservatives is how good do they need to be? I guess 'Chicken Fat' is only necessary if machines take a year or more to get from factory to customer. Ketan or Hugh would know, but I guess the supply chain is faster than that, making it unnecessary for kit to be protected heavily. Of course, this risks lighter protection being inadequate if there's a delay or the package is soaked in transit. Both are candidates.

Dave

The derogatory term ‘Chicken Fat’ was used often, especially by the late John Stevenson in the early days. He used to make a point of saying this often during SIEG factory visits. The GM at SIEG failed to understand what JS was saying at first, especially as JS would say it in humour. Those who knew John would understand what I am trying to say

One day the GM asked for clarification and John explained in his usual colourful way. This resulted in mild resentment at first, developing into the GM becoming more unhappy with the term. So, he surprised us by changing the protective coating.

Surface rust (cosmetic or whatever) could have resulted from any number of reasons during final packing at factory through to transit and storage over time. It would be wrong to presume that this was a result of ex-demo or return machine. What ever the reasons are, I believe that enough theories have been explored, done the rounds and being re-explored by new readers. Really, it is a matter for the OP to deal with, with Warco. As I said before, what the OP has done to the machine is a great result. What follows thereafter is really a matter between him and Warco.

Ketan at ARC.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 12/11/2022 10:43:04:

…

Anyone else had the pleasure of cleaning Cosmoline? Some of the war surplus I bought as a lad arrived triple-wrapped, with the item inside plastered in Cosmoline. Perhaps it was easier to remove when new, and 25 years in a warehouse had solidified it!

Dave

 

At least if you received W/|D kit covered in cosmolene, you knew

i) it was in unmodified ex-works condition underneath, and

ii) it was unlikely to have suffered corrosion, contamination or vermin ingress.

Or did the mice and roaches learn to eat the stuff?

Edited By Mick B1 on 12/11/2022 15:09:57

[ALLAN QURASHIParticipant @allanqurashi51750]

Hi John,

Looking at the first photos you posted (of below the chuck) it appears as if the corrosion was pre-existing before the headstock was installed, because it runs up to the headstock to bed joint with no change of outline or intensity. And there's even a small splash of what looks like touch-up paint on top of the rust. Not good to have corrosion trapped between two precision ground critical faying surfaces.

Customers are the last line of quality control….the inspectors work for the company, not the customer so their POV will be; no news is good news. You're right to report your unhappiness back to them. Good luck, Allan

[John McCullaParticipant @johnmcculla]

Posted by ALLAN QURASHI on 14/11/2022 15:20:29:

Hi John,

Looking at the first photos you posted (of below the chuck) it appears as if the corrosion was pre-existing before the headstock was installed, because it runs up to the headstock to bed joint with no change of outline or intensity. And there's even a small splash of what looks like touch-up paint on top of the rust. Not good to have corrosion trapped between two precision ground critical faying surfaces.

Customers are the last line of quality control….the inspectors work for the company, not the customer so their POV will be; no news is good news. You're right to report your unhappiness back to them. Good luck, Allan

Well hopefully it's not as bad as you suspect Allan, because the lathe is now mine.

They wouldn't entertain the idea of a replacement lathe, it was either 'store' credit or a refund. A refund is all well and good, and Hugh at Amadeal has argued his case well, however the inconvenience and ultimately financial cost of more days off work waiting on deliveries and collections swung it in favour of the credit. Initially they offered me £75, but I felt that was rather low. Eventually we agreed on £200. Any suggestions on what I should spend it on?

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Did Warco give an explanation and actually apologize for the unusual amount of rust on your lathe?

[John McCullaParticipant @johnmcculla]

Posted by Bill Phinn on 14/11/2022 22:00:18:

Did Warco give an explanation and actually apologize for the unusual amount of rust on your lathe?

They did apologise, but the closest I got to an explanation was 'It definitely didn't leave here like that, it must have been dripped on en-route', however it was very well packaged, I can't see how it could have been dripped on. My best guess is condensation.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I think we are safe to assume Warco do not inspect every machine before they ship it to the the customer, from someone who has a 3 year old lathe from them.

Tony

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John McCulla on 14/11/2022 22:10:10:

Posted by Bill Phinn on 14/11/2022 22:00:18:

Did Warco give an explanation and actually apologize for the unusual amount of rust on your lathe?

They did apologise, but the closest I got to an explanation was 'It definitely didn't leave here like that, it must have been dripped on en-route', however it was very well packaged, I can't see how it could have been dripped on. My best guess is condensation condescension.

Fixed that for you.

No way that sort of rust magically appeared overnight between Warco's shop and your home.

Edited By Hopper on 15/11/2022 04:05:44

[Anonymous]

Posted by John McCulla on 14/11/2022 21:49:32:

They wouldn't entertain the idea of a replacement lathe…

I've never bought anything from Warco. With an attitude like that I never will.

Andrew

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

I think Warco (and I suspect the other suppliers) don’t open the crate to inspect lathes and rely on the inspection being carried out in China. I bought a 290 lathe and it was delivered in a wooden crate which had obviously not been opened. I had a problem with it and Warco sent their contractor to check and try to fix it. He spent most of the day here but couldn’t resolve the problem. Warco agreed to replace it and the new one was also obviously crated up at the manufacturers. Possibly John’s lathe missed having the stage of having rust protection applied before leaving the factory in China.

They did offer a refund so I don’t understand why they didn’t offer a replacement.

Stuart

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 15/11/2022 13:50:59

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Stuart Smith 5 on 15/11/2022 13:50:31:

They did offer a refund so I don’t understand why they didn’t offer a replacement.

Stuart

It would be more work for Warco sending another lathe out as well as collecting the rejected one.

Offering a refund and refusing a replacement also sends a message that the seller, not the buyer, is in charge of the resolution process.

Maybe some sellers also want to suggest that, after the refund, they would prefer not to have any further dealings with you.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Just reading some of the latest posts on this subject. I have never bought from Warco, so I cannot comment either way, but I am reminded of a comment made by an old friend many years ago.

He was employed in car sales, and very good at it too, with a great record.

He said, "Any fool can sell to a customer once, but can he sell to them twice ?"

This guy sold to his customers, and their families, over and over again.

One sale is nothing, repeat sales are everything, cars/machines, all the same.

Would not be too impressed with that response, might have expected something better.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I've refrained from commenting so far, but that is just not on. The lathe is clearly 'not of merchantable quality'. If you paid with a credit card you can probably get the card company involved to get the money back. I'm really surprised at Warco, they seemed to have a good reputation. Hard to gain, easy to lose

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

To be clear did Warco offer a refund of the total price of the lathe or was it just a refund of £200 for the damage/inconvenience?

Doug

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As they can sell all than they can get, are out of stock and have pre orders for what is due to come it would be hard for warco to offer a replacement unless the OP was willing to wait 6 months or more.

As a happy Warco 280 owner I'd buy from them again over other suppliers offering a similar lathe. Though probably go up to the 290.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

Well, as a long time Warco 1330 lathe owner I never have, and never would buy from them again, even if they would want to sell to me again.

When I purchased a new full price 1330 lathe from them in 2004 I was sent an ex demo/display machine in a terrible state, even though I warned them not to send me a demo/display machine, only a new machine, while I was face to face with the boss in their showroom. I was promised that I would of course receive a new unused machine, but that is not what Warco did.

I did get them to replace it, because of the very bad state it was in, and it also shook badly at certain speeds and left a deep ridged pattern in the work. Although the replacement had its own set of problems. 

Now I still have respect for Warco, and hope they continue to be there for a long time to come. They have treated many customers very well. But for me the trust has gone a long time ago, unfortunately.

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 17:53:15

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 17:54:23

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 17:59:36

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

I would also add that Warco's offer to give John either a full refund, or the £200 that he has accepted, seems a fair offer to me, regardless of the reason why they declined to exchange the lathe for another.

Although their claim that "It definitely didn't leave here like that" seems a little absurd. 

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 19:32:08

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

When I had a problem with a machine sold to me by Warco, it was replaced (The replacement was worse quality, in another way, than the original ) but exchanged with suitable compensation, for another product.

Before that, I had a machine which shredded a V belt within 6 month, from new. I realigned the motor, and the replacement belt has been operating for over 20 years..

As with far eastern products, it has not been totally trouble free, but has functioned acceptably for several years..

Face the fact, if you buy nylons, you cannot reasonably expect silk stockings!

You can't expect top level industrial quality in a hobby level machine. You get what you pay for.

From what i saw, it was bad that the machine was rusty.. But the imperfection was unsightly, not so bad as to render the machine unuseable.

Trying to view things from both sides, Warco lost money, and reputation, on the deal, and the buyer got an imperfect machine which is still quite capable of doing the job for which it was intended..

Howard

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Inadvertent double post

Edited By Howard Lewis on 15/11/2022 22:30:37

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