Rulers – my pet peeve

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by Hopper on 03/04/2019 07:37:37:

Posted by Chris Trice on 02/04/2019 16:43:58:

I would urge people to check their rules, particularly plastic and cheap ones, for accuracy against a known good one. You'd be surprised at some of the variance.

Actually I would not be that surprised these days. In fact, not surprised at all.

I still use my good old 6" Moore and Wright I was issued as an apprentice.

My recommendation to check was earnest and highly recommended. It's one of those things everyone takes for granted. I was horrified how much some of them vary. My go to rule is my Japanese Fisher rule cross checked against a Mitutoyo vernier.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

…. and if anyone's bought one of those tapered wedge shaped rules designed to measure the diameter of holes, I'd treat those with suspicion too. On mine, the metric size indicated too big and the imperial size indicated too small. It went in the bin.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I have in an idle moment, laid rules against each other and seen small discrepancies (smaller than the width of the engraved line). I think that if any of these rules (all of which are in regular use) had an error big enough to introduce errors in what I was making, then I would be disgusted with myself for having not noticed or investigated the cause of the errors.

It is possible to do extremely accurate work with rulers, scribers, magnifying glasses etc but I think one would then know very quickly if there were differences between them.

Ian P

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Many years ago our chief engineer was visiting his sister in Denmark, and bought some cheap tape measures on the market. I then had a spate of making things which ddn't fir despite having measured up carefully. You've guessed , danish inches are different to British ones. I'd have been OK if I'd stuck to one tape, but you use the one which is to hand on rough and ready jobs.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Chris Trice on 03/04/2019 22:17:49:

…. and if anyone's bought one of those tapered wedge shaped rules designed to measure the diameter of holes, I'd treat those with suspicion too. On mine, the metric size indicated too big and the imperial size indicated too small. It went in the bin.

Add to that, feeler gauges. I bought a new set, reputable mid-range brand (Kinchrome), but measuring them with a good micrometer (Mitutoyo) reveals they are all over the place. The 2, 3 and 4 thou feelers are all the same thickness.

Many of the others were supposed to be imperial sizes, as marked and as sold as a set of imperial feelers, but measurement revealed they were the nearest metric equivalent feeler simply stamped with a nominal imperial size. So many were quite a few thou out. Absolute rubbish.

Edited By Hopper on 04/04/2019 00:12:46

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Interesting your perception of Kinchrome Hopper, until Bunnings took over the Homebase chain in theUK I had not encountered the Kinchrome brand so without experience it is difficult to get a feel for the quality, it seems to be gear that is probably Chinese sourced but that can mean very good to crap so I have been a bit reserved in buying until a bit of positive feedback filters through. Ozito is another unknown brand but I did risk buying a sander which seems ok on initial impressions but long term the jury is still out. Bunnings bailed out of Homebase and sold it for £1 but they still seem to have stock of Kinchrome gear, we will see what happens when the dust settles.

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Mike Poole on 04/04/2019 00:32:43:

Interesting your perception of Kinchrome Hopper, until Bunnings took over the Homebase chain in theUK I had not encountered the Kinchrome brand so without experience it is difficult to get a feel for the quality, it seems to be gear that is probably Chinese sourced but that can mean very good to crap so I have been a bit reserved in buying until a bit of positive feedback filters through. Ozito is another unknown brand but I did risk buying a sander which seems ok on initial impressions but long term the jury is still out. Bunnings bailed out of Homebase and sold it for £1 but they still seem to have stock of Kinchrome gear, we will see what happens when the dust settles.

Mike

Ha, the dreaded Bunnings. Home of cheap junk made in China. Ozito is a mid-range line ok for home use, maybe. Not great, but there are worse, such as GME.

Kinchrome used to be quite good, and some of their stuff such as spanners and sockets still is. Not Snap-On or Stahlwille but a good standard go-to for home workshop and good value for money. I see a lot of motor mechanics using Kinchrome toolboxes and spanners and sockets these days. I have a $100 dial indicator with mag. base by Kinchrome that has given good service. But in recent years I have noticed the ubiquitous "quality fade" with some Kinchrome stuff such as automatic centre punch that doesn't, the above feeler gauges, flashlight that doesn't and similar.

Kinchrome are an Australian brand but all made in China as far as I know. Playing off the 100-year-old Sidchrome name perhaps, which were always very good quality professional tradesman's tools but expensive, made in Oz. Sidchrome are still around, but made in China and not the quality of the old stuff. I got suckered into buying one of their 1/4 drive socket sets. Sockets good. Ratchet woeful. I will buy a Kinchrome ratchet handle to replace it.

Edited By Hopper on 04/04/2019 03:36:11

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

RE: Bunnings.

I recently looked for some decent quality drill bits etc in Bunnings (Wodonga). Sutton tools are of better quality than some of the other stuff that they sell Sutton Tools

I found what I wanted (a long shank 3mm drill bit) and the salesperson remarked that Bunnings would soon be dropping this brand so I asked him when the clearance sale would be as often prices are reduced to dispose of old stock. "Don't know" was the answer. Handy to keep an eye on.

So how trustworthy is this ruler?

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

It would be a bit of a laugh to leave a few "Contraction Rules" around on the workshop bench and see who noticed !

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Danny, yes Sutton are good. Among the best. Still made in Australia I believe. Very good taps too.

Love the ruler with the backwards N in INCHES. It must have come from some country that does not use the roman alphabet so it all looks like gibberish to them. Sort of like when we look at those neon sign-lit streets in Hong Kong.

You should see a Chinese-language computer keyboard. It is something to behold. The average Chinese newspaper uses about 700 symbols, all built up in parts by hitting one key, backspacing and then hitting another key over top of it, several times over.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I have to give a plug for Ozito : all my home and garden power tools are Ozito (except the bench drill) and I think they are exceptional value. They also come with a 3 year warranty. How many things come with a 3 year warranty now ? My brother is a sheet metal worker in Perth and Brisbane and he says he sees a lot of Ozito power tools on worksites even though there is no warranty for professional/tradesman use. The guys flog the daylights out of the tool for a couple of years and then go buy another one. For the price, Ozito are exceptional value.

I have always called it a ruler. I shall have to watch my language in the workshop from now on !

Edited By Brian John on 04/04/2019 10:05:26

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I was taught at school that a ruler was a King or Queen, and you use a rule for measuring or ruling a straight line. Danny M2Z, From what I read (in Electronics Australia) twenty or so years ago Rules with imperial, and metric graduation were illegal, the mentioned a shipment that were imported from Malasia for the education dept in Queensland, customs found a shipment them and had them all destroyed. They had to be metric only.

Ian S C

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Thanks for the feedback on the Australian brands, that does reinforce what my impressions are. The DIY barns are not usually the place to shop for the best tools but sometimes the price is right and if it does the job once that might be all it needs to do. Tools for site work must be a nightmare, take a shiny new Makita on site and every scally will be trying to part you from it, it’s probably more likely to be stolen than worn out.

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The new Makita stuff ain't what it used to be either. All the boys on sites here have gone to using DeWalt if they want quality- but you have to get their top line models not their cheap ones.

Edited By Hopper on 04/04/2019 11:03:35

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

A few years ago i went into Blackwoods ( industrial supply store here in Australia   to buy some stuff for work and was discussing the difference between brands of spanners and sockets and how the names like Sidchrome and Stanley had fallen from grace , the guy behind the counter went out into the little tool display section they had and grabbed a few different brands of the same size open end / ring spanner and returned to the counter with them . He had a Sidchrome , a Kinchrome and a JBS ( Blackwoods own brand ) he asked me to pick the difference and the only thing i could see that was different was the name on them , he then explained that they are all made in the same factory ( at the time these were all made in Taiwan ) and the only difference was the name stamped on them and the price . Sidchrome being the most expensive and all had the same warranty , never bought Sidchome again and these days i but total tools brand and have found them to be pretty good and with good warranty service .

I can’t remember if it was Sutton or P&N drill bits i have that i noticed were made in N.Z .

Just don’t buy any drill bits that are made in Queensland as they are all bent 🍌 !

 

Edited By XD 351 on 04/04/2019 15:33:34

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Branding has become a cover for all sorts of fakery, we are fooled into buying a brand that has a strong history of quality but now the brand owners just get the stuff made anywhere and stamp the brand name on it. If they care then you may still get a quality item but low cost trumps high quality and in the end the customer who remembers the quality when the brand earned its reputation becomes disillusioned and disappointed with a brand and looks elsewhere. I am sure there is someone making up names for high street clothing brands and just in case you forget where you bought it they plaster their name all over it.

Mike

[Ron ColvinParticipant @roncolvin83430]

This one came out of a Christmas cracker, I keep it in my wallet, it gets a surprising amount of use.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Yes, I have a couple of those small rules too. I use them a lot…all spaced around the work room where I can easily find/lose them !

[Swarf MakerParticipant @swarfmaker85383]

Rather like the specification of an

"8X( Vintage Stainless Steel Ruler Rule Scale Machinist Tools 20CM Z9N8)"

on ebay at the moment:- " The measurement allowed error is +/- 1-3cm "

I think I could make most things fit within that sort of tolerance!

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

My "pet peeve" with rules are rounded ends, happens when they are carried around in a pocket. Not sure what it is about it that peeves me but it does.

This rule I find very useful around machinery, particularly the lathe. Wish I could find a metric version.

John

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by John MC on 07/04/2019 08:32:53:

My "pet peeve" with rules are rounded ends, happens when they are carried around in a pocket. Not sure what it is about it that peeves me but it does

Amen to that observation! I usually measure from another (convenient) location on the ruler such as the 100cm graduation when slicing things (balsawood) to repeatable dimensions.

* Danny M *

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Long rules can always be made shorter John, for a couple of quid a rule of acceptable quality can soon be converted to any length you like (as long as it’s shorter)

Mike

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Mike Poole on 07/04/2019 09:22:44:

Long rules can always be made shorter John, for a couple of quid a rule of acceptable quality can soon be converted to any length you like (as long as it’s shorter)

Mike

And they can be stretched to make them longer even if the middle does neck down a bit!

[Donald MacDonald 1Participant @donaldmacdonald1]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 02/04/2019 10:46:10:

Hi, well these are my absolute favourite types of rules.

Regards Nick.

Yes, I like the simplicity & lack of 0.5mm markings.
What brand? It looks like the brand has been abraded off. Where they sold as 'seconds'?
Are they double-sided? If not are they lined with anything non-stick?

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Used to get a smack on the back of the ed if caught using the end of the rule to measure. "Long rules can be shortened", yep especially the zero end.

Regards Ian.

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