Royal Mail

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Royal Mail could be allowed to scrap Saturday post deliveries, as part of an Ofcom review into how the postal service may need updating

Any suggestions for Ofcom ?

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

No, but just FYI as to how it’s going across the Atlantic in Ottawa.

Many city houses lost home delivery of letters and small packages a while ago.

Community mailboxes were placed around, so now you walk (or stop when driving home) to see if you have anything. People complained, so a few years ago, Canada Post stopped replacing home delivery with communal mailbox areas.

We still have home delivery, but have noted two things. 1) We only get things in our mailbox maybe 2 times/week. 2) The old grey “Relay Boxes” are no longer used; delivery people now get their own van, and drive around, park, then walk to a few houses plopping things in the mailbox, get in the van, move to the next area…

There’s just not enough post to have the old postman walking around, refilling their postbag from the relay boxes.

Our last of the old-method, until early in 2023, our postman (postlady) was Vera, who I used to see getting dropped off in the morning then picked up later in the day from a passenger van, along with a few other postmen.

Dog walking allows you to see how things work, and I’d sometimes stop to chat as they awaited their pickup.

(note – there’s most likely a gender-agnostic term for “mail-delivery-individual”, but I don’t know what it is. “post-person” sounds like someone died, so I used “postman” as a generic term)

 

[Harry Wilkes]

On 20 January 2024 at 16:56 Harry Wilkes Said:

[…]

Any suggestions for Ofcom ?

Wake Up, and work on behalf of the people !!

MichaelG.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

We live in the ‘sticks’ of Lincolnshire and I have to say the postal service around here is very good. If we have less than 7-day service it is more likely that it is Monday which is omitted, but I don’t know because it may be just that there is no mail for us over the weekend. The collection from the village post box and Post Office counter in the village shop is very reliable too. The problem with the USO is that Royal Mail was privatised and no private, profit-driven, company is going to use profitable services to subsidise the loss-making. Privatisation was an ideologically driven move that was never going to work in the country’s overall best interest because it is economically impossible to provide the same service as in a big city that is expected in the Highlands and Islands, hence the ‘wailing’ of RM for the reform of the USO. Cross-subsidy is obviously easier for publicly-owned entities.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On 20 January 2024 at 16:56 Harry Wilkes Said:

[…]

Any suggestions for Ofcom ?

Wake Up, and work on behalf of the people !!

MichaelG.

👍

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I don’t want to get overly Political, or we might lose this Topic … so, just two simple links to the Ofcom website:

1. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/complaints/complain-about-postal-services/royal-mail
2. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/what-is-ofcom

Go Compare … then give-up in despair

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Royal Mail has pleaded for urgent changes to its regulatory framework, arguing a system built for 20 billion letter deliveries a year is now managing only seven billion, with the number set to decline to as few as four billion within five years, based on current trends.

… and it appears that the proposed solution is to reduce the quality, and increase the price of the service.

That sounds like the makings of a hideous ‘death-scene’ to me.

MichaelG.

.

Source: Sky News … Mark Kleinman, City editor

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

The problem with a Privatised company as in the case of Royal Mail is that its purpose of existence is to make a profit for its shareholders, a private company has no obligation to its customers, it’s very existence is to serve its shareholders.   Dave W

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Fair point, Dave … and that’s why we need Ofgem to be doing its job.

The rules were perfectly well-established at the time of the privatisation.

Purchasers should have known what they were buying.

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

To be a little bit on Royal Mail’s side, the number of letters actually posted has dropped a lot over the past few years, so the income has fallen but they still have to walk the rounds every day, just with a lighter bag. I’d drop it to 3 days a week, I’d rather a reliable slightly slower service than the totally unreliable service we have now. I think it’s 3 days per week in some mainland Europe countries. And I’d get rid of first and second class, it must cost the same to actually deliver them, and separating them is an extra step which must cost. Anything which must get there tomorrow either email or send signed for at extra cost.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That’s very generous of you, Duncan

My own thoughts, on the contrary, turned to the concept of Due Diligence

That exercise must [surely?] have included the Buyer recognising the obligations of the service provider … which means Royal Mail must deliver and collect letters six days a week, and parcels five days a week, at an affordable and uniform price throughout the UK.

Those obligations are the very ‘ground-rules’ defining the essence of what was sold and purchased.

MichaelG.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Michael G, you’ve taken most of the words from my mouth.  Well said.

Perhaps the reduction in postal usage may be due to the high costs of buying a stamp now.  Using postal charges as a “cash cow” looks to have backfired for Royal Mail.  “Customer focus” being dirty words to them.

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Royal Mail currently has a legal obligation to deliver letter post 6 days a week, the recent ITV drama and subsequent inquiry has revealed that RM has been telling it’s staff to ignore that obligation and concentrate on parcels as that is a greater money spinner.

Will RM get it’s knuckles rapped? – don’t hold your breath.

Ofcom is not on our side and will let RM basically do what it likes.

as for letter post, I think the strategy within RM is to price it out of existance.

So much for serving the people!

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

As I pointed out in my post on “mail deliveries in your area”.

 

There is currently two legal obligations to deliver the mail daily 6 days a week and not to interfere with its delivery. Yet my MP a minister, and the Minister of Business and Trade do not want to pick up on these points of law.

Personally I can see no difference between Royal Mail’s actions and those of the Post Office. They are a law unto themselves doing just what they like.

As regards Ofcom, they like the Rivers Authority are of little use to the general public. I have no time for self policing organisations, they just do not work.

Regards

Gray,

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

If RM is a private company with consumer regulation, then let it operate as such. Regulate the retail price of a stamp to consumers, but why regulate the Access Services that Royal Mail is obliged to offer to third party mail companies. These companies charge large users to sort mail, then hand it off to Royal Mail to deliver. The amount they can be charged by Royal Mail is regulated to ensure that these operators can make a significant profit, and ensure there is “competition” in the mail delivery market.

Things like mail delivery SHOULD be regulated monopolies. They have what economists call Network Effects such that the cheapest solution is when everyone uses the same network. If a third party wants to set up as a competitor to Royal Mail for letter delivery, they should be able to do so. But they should have to meet the same delivery obligations and  be subject to the same regulations as Royal Mail. If they want to off load the expensive part to Royal Mail’s delivery network, they should be forced to negotiate with Royal Mail for the delivery, not rely on Ofcom guaranteeing them a profit on the back of Royal Mail.

Imagine Amazon’s reaction if they were told they had to deliver parcels given to them by Evri at a price that guaranteed Evri a profit!!

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

That single-price-everywhere model is what Roland Hill originally designed, but to those who cavill at the price of a stamp, it was never “cheap”. What is his 1d. worth today?

The PO and RM are not strictly “privatised” but are State-owned, yet expected to work as if a fully private company.

Would it hurt to lose the Saturday delivery? Not really, if we are honest, not for letters at least. It is not significant to private addresses, and most of the business customers close over weekends. What I think should stay are Post Offices, and them staying open on Saturdays even if by closing one week-day, perhaps Monday, instead.

We have all become far too lazy, relying on far too many shops etc. being available at all times of the day even over weekends and Bank Holidays. Though to be fair that is very much driven by the businesses themselves, but I wonder how many remote HQ spreadsheet jockeys are in the office on a Sunday afternoon?

Plus simplifying the collection service so it is easy and efficient to ask for an undelivered parcel to left for your collection from your local PO or sorting-office. That does exist but via a clumsy web-site or call-centre that does not list all branches. (Clumsy web-sites and call-centres? Surely not…)

 

….

 

Right, world put to rights. Time for scran then making some more swarf.

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

The PO and RM are not strictly “privatised” but are State-owned, yet expected to work as if a fully private company.

The Post office is a limited company owned by the  Government, but Royal Mail is a Public Company owned by its shareholders.

“In 2013, Royal Mail was floated on the London Stock Exchange. The Government initially retained a 30 per cent stake in Royal Mail, but sold its remaining shares in 2015 under Chancellor George Osborne. It is now a public limited company, meaning it is owned by shareholders.

Daniel Kretínský, a Czech billionaire, has the biggest share – 25% of the company is controlled by his Vesa Equity Investment group.”  Evening Standard

Another roaring success of Privatisation!!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That’s a very important correction, Peter

Thank you for saving me the effort of making it.

… It cuts to to root of my earlier comments.

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

RM are trying to freeze the PO out, that’s why it costs more to post a parcel at the PO than to have RM collect it from your house. I kid you not. I’ll not get political, it’s obviously a triumph.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

And The Post Office is doing business with Evri & DPD for parcels

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Difficult to see it will make much difference in my area because the service is very erratic anyway.

As an example: we had one delivery last week (Monday 15th) then nothing until yesterday when several letters were put in our box, some of the first class ones were clearly post marked 16 Jan (one demanding urgent attention).

Mail that should arrive within known date spans often goes missing and what is the point of 1st class taking 8 days.

Ofcom needs to attack the existing problems not offer get out of jail free cards.

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Apart from Christmas/Birthday cards when did you last get a real letter hand written on its own and not a note with a parcel? For me I think it is years, quite a lot of years.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

In one of the responses to my MP about our mail deliveries. He was told, “RM are recruiting 16,000 more staff to improve the service”. This does not go hand in hand with deliveries 3 days a week. It seems the postal service is plagued with untruths.

Further as I said earlier, Ofcom is of no use to the consumer. The offices of Ofcom are putting the revised delivery service forward. This is hardly the stance of a regulator who is supposed to ensure RM meet their delivery commitments. Something the residents around the UK know RM are not doing without Ofcom.

Regards

Gray,

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Handwritten letters? I generally type and print mine because they are usually business or formal in nature. As to receiving letters and post it’s most days despite my rural location. We’re blessed with an efficient postie.</p>
I do agree that the reality is one uses social media or email whenever possible and family stuff is often video chat. That’s due to technology but also the downside of charges being high .

There are certain things that really should remain universally available such as rights to an electricity supply or reliable telecommunications and I would add reliable post to that.

Progress does change things…most folk could use satellite internet if hard wiring is too expensive for instance but I find the privatisation of utilities and parcel services arguable. The numbers of different courier companies delivering around here can’t be environmentally friendly when one van could do it.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

So much for trying to cut and paste on a mobile phone….sigh

 

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