Rothenberger Super Fire 2 Torch

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

I use a Rothenberger Super Fire 2 torch for my silver soldering and annealing. The torch is about 4 years old, and yesterday, when installing the cylinder, gas vented from a small hole in the body. Tried another cylinder, exactly the same.

I contacted Rothenberger UK and was told it's irreparable and the leakage was caused by erosion from the use of aftermarket gas (non-Rothenberger), or by leaving the cylinder attached after use, which I haven't.

Anyone come across this before? The obvious thought is that Rothenberger want me to buy their gas, but I'm not sure.

There seem to be any number of aftermarket cylinders available from plumbers merchants, so if that's the case, it ought to be a common problem.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Ever heard anything like this before?

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

More like porosity in their crappy casting. If you can see the hole, seal the inlet and outlet with silicon and use a syringe to draw a vacuum (through one of the sealed ends), you can now add Araldite to the hole and draw it into the casting. That should seal it just fine. If you can't find the hole a bit of soapy water and use the syringe to add pressure and mark where the bubbles appear, then do as first suggested.

Edited By Bob n About on 06/05/2021 10:14:30

Edited By Bob n About on 06/05/2021 10:15:01

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Good morning Bob,

The gas is venting from a 2.6mm hole in the body of the torch. It appears to be specific, and presumably for venting purposes. If there is any porosity, it would be inside the torch body.

I've questioned Rothenberger's claim regarding the use of aftermarket gas causing erosion, but as yet have had no response. The leaflet that came with the torch says "fits all leading types of gas cylinder", so that rather throws their response into touch.

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

OK, I assumed from what you said a small hole had opened up in the body. I would make the body gas tight, but thats me.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I had the same thing happen to a Co2 regulator only I got gas out of the torch at bottle pressure as well.

The diaphram has gone, and judging by their response it's a rare event.

I have an ancient spitfire torch from the 80's that still runs

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Bo'sun on 06/05/2021 07:26:22:

I contacted Rothenberger UK and was told it's irreparable and the leakage was caused by erosion from the use of aftermarket gas (non-Rothenberger), or by leaving the cylinder attached after use, which I haven't..

In the USA the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act states that Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty but if a similar law applies where you are based I do not know.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Can I take it you've seen the video below, Bo'sun, and the comments?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

As has been said I fancy the diaphram has failed ! If it's irrepairable then you have nothing to loose from stripping it to see. Their excuse that it has failed due to non properpriatry gas may have some creedance as if the gas was less pure or had oily fractions it may well cause premature failure of the diaphram. Good luck Noel

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I presume you've looked in the instructions, but if not manual

No sign of a diaphragm on the exploded view, but perhaps they don't want to show the clever bit

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Posted by Bill Phinn on 06/05/2021 18:21:29:

Can I take it you've seen the video below, Bo'sun, and the comments?

Thank you Bill,

No I hadn't seen the video. It seems I'm not alone with this problem. Fortunately it occurred to me as I screwed the cylinder on. Rothenberger are claiming it's down to imported Chinese gas causing seal erosion. I'm still waiting to hear from them what occurs if the cylinder isn't disconnected after use. I'm sure contractors don't.

Thanks to everyone else for their comments. If anything useful happens I'll update the post.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Never disconnected the cylinder after use on mine, use whatever gas the local plumber's merchant have in stock – not Rothenberger, never had any issues.

Rob

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

I also have a Superfire 2 of about the same age. You have me worried now. Do please let us know if you find out anything useful.

Jim

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

I had my first Rothenberger torch about 25 years ago specifically for silver soldering…quite expensive at the time as i was serious about what I was making….. Nothing but problems, with the torch and the gas constantly variable quality and it was never Rothenbergers fault, always mine and how I was using it…and always what super duper top line quality their kit was…Eventually I dumped all my Rothenberger rubbish and bought a real torch (Sievert) and have had no more bothers…..

Basically, Rothenberger is for plumbers….not for what people here are doing. Not long now and it won't even be for plumbers becasue plumbing stuff is changing so fast that a torch will soon no longer be needed!

Rothenberger is rubbish!…there, I said it!….from exxperience (bitter)……..Go to Cup-Alloys, they will sort you out

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Hi All,

Well it may not come as a surprise, but I got nowhere with Rothenberger, other than the offer of a refurbished torch for £35.00 (+ VAT) with no warranty. Why would I take that when I can buy a new one for £59.00 with 12 months warranty. Not that I intend to do that at the moment.

Search on now for a good quality/reliable torch (with disposable cylinders). Any suggestions?

Something similar to the Super Fire 2 as that worked brilliantly when it did.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

It just goes to show what you don't know.

Looking for a Sievert torch, and it turns out the UK agent is Rothenberger UK. Why do I feel like I'm going round in circles?

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Sorry to hear about your tribulations dealing with Rothenberger.

I still use Bernzomatic [i.e. "plumbers'"] cylinders occasionally, but I do so using the regulator in the link, which obviously requires the use of a hose but as a result gives you much more choice on the torch you can use with it. It also has a useful output gauge.

https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/MAPP-Gas-Regulator.html#SID=341

Edited By Bill Phinn on 07/05/2021 11:00:29

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

If you are looking for similarity, please consider the Bernzomatic torches.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Bullfinch also do a couple of bottle mounted torches. Not used one but the Bullfinch hose torches that I've got seem to be completely satisfactory.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

+1 for Bullfinch. They have been extremely helpful whenever I have needed information. Totally different to Sievert / Rothenberger's unhelpful staff.

If you don't go for Bullfinch (shame on you), then Bernzomatic have proved to be totally reliable for me.

Andrew.

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

I would be wary of Bernzomatic torches. There are a number of U-tube posts, notably by a poster named "NOBOX7", which show the Bernzomatic to have the appearance of a Rothenburger by another name, to have a similar hole in the handle as the Rothenburger and to fail in a similar alarming way to the Rothenburger.

Just saying.

Jim

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by Jim Nic on 07/05/2021 12:53:02:

….show the Bernzomatic to have the appearance of a Rothenburger by another name…

One could also say that the Rothenberger has the appearance of a Bernzomatic by another name.

If a person wanted to do some kind of due diligence on these things, it would probably be possible to find out who makes what for whom and to compare and contrast the warranty or replacement policies of the companies involved.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Yes, just looked at thr Bernzomatic TS8000T, which does bear a remarkable resemblance to the Super Fire 2. I suspect it will have the same issues, as they also say the torch and cylinder must be disconnected after use. I'll give Bullfinch a butchers.

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

Likewise, if you are looking for a similar type.

I am a user of the Vortex VT3 kit by Arctic Hayes, I can only say that I"m more than satisfied with it's capabilities. Mine came with a Map gas version which I have not used yet due to finishing off a cylinder of different branded propane. Here's a link for your perusal and consideration-

Vortex VT3

Note- it is available from other outlets and at less than RRP.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Bo'sun on 07/05/2021 14:22:11:

I suspect it will have the same issues

Three reviews of it here suggest it does:

https://www.bernzomatic.com/Products/Hand-Torches/Instant-On-Off/TS8000T

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