Rotary vice advice required.

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi folks

I was looking for some advice on rotary tables. I have a warco wm16b milling machine and wondered what the best size rotary table would and if anyone had some advice on accessories etc. I have looked at the vevor 4,5 and 6 inch vices . I was considering the 5″ vice. What are your thoughts on that size for my mill and any recommendations for accessories

 

Thanks .

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

I have the same machine. My rotary table (very old, branded “Ace”) is 6″, and I find it it annoyingly small. I reckon 8″ would be do-able if you can find one that isn’t excessively tall. Note though that I’m talking about using the RT flat – if you have one that can stand on end, then 6″ might be about the biggest you could use. I’d favour the ease of setup, clamping, etc., with the larger table, over the stand-on-end capability.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Vevor?  Not looking for a good quality product?  Personally I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.  I only buy from that supplier if I am confident I can live with, or fix, the likely issues.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Think very carefully before committing, weight may be one of the issues. 8″ RT is 30kg, 6″ is 12kg [from Warco site]

Tony

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi,

I was thinking about the 5 inch as it will be small parts il be making also might want to use it vertically. I worried 6″ vertically would not leave much room. What accessories would be advisable

Thanks

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

I too have a WM 16 mill and I bought a Vertex 5 inch rotary table to use on it.

The 5 inch fits nicely on the mill both horizontally and vertically but it I find it a bit small to be very useful.  Additionally it has only 3 channels for fixture bolts which makes it somewhat awkward to use.

Regarding accessories, I have an ER25 collet chuck which fits in the centre of the table and I’ve made an MT2 adaptor which fits also there with a 10mm dia centre hole so that I can make mandrels to fit various size parts for ease of location.

Hope this helps

Jim

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

All the smaller rotary tables are inherently short of space to accommodate work holding clamps. In my view the 8″ – 200 mm size being the smallest that can satisfactorily exploit the common import Tee nut, stud and step block sets without too much futzing around. Even then it’s all pretty tight.

Best answer is a grid of tapped holes plate semipermanently fitted to the rotary table. I reckon 5 spot dice pattern on 1″ – 25 mm centres with 1/4″ or M6 threads works pretty well for most things. If you do predominantly very small work consider a tighter spacing with M4 or M5 threads. The optical lab equipment companies make aluminium breadboards with this sort of hole pattern that aren’t completely unaffordable if you don’t fancy tapping all those holes for example Thor labs:-

https://www.thorlabs.com/navigation.cfm?guide_id=45

is the index page for theirs. Other firms do similar things. Or maybe half the price from AliExpress.

For small work very simple sheet metal, 3 or 4 mm is plenty thick enough, bent L shape clamps with a slot or choice of bolt holes to take the fixing stud or screw work pretty well. Easy DIY and no tears lost if you cut into, or even through, one. Thicker, more engineered ones can have jack screw, with a foot so it doesn’t chew the table surface, can cover a greater range. On my little BCA I found a knurled knob on the jack screw, rather than a proper hex or allen socket, generated perfectly adequate clamping forces for small stuff and small cutters.

Clive

 

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

I  go with Clive, make a fixture table. I have a SX1LP mill – smaller than yours – for which a 4″ table seemed ideal, however with four big (M10 size) T slots on the small table clamping things soon became a pain. So I made a circular fixture table from a 125mm diameter x 22m thick aluminium billet and tapped it with a circular array of M6 holes. It now suits the mill very well. This is it in use making the table support for the Hemmingway filing machine.

I used 125mm because that’s the largest diameter I could turn on my little Taig lathe, and also because that’s the largest size that still allowed me to use the table vertical with fixture plate fitted.

 

And the pattern I used. The 90mm spacing of the four mounting holes was chosen to match the spacing of the mill table T slots so that it is possible to bolt the fixture plate directly to the table if needed.

PS I have also added  a stepper based controller based on Dave’s  (SOD) code which is excellent.

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

I’ll second Clive’s suggestion of a tapped sub table if you opt for a smaller table. Makes clamping so much easier and in some cases the only way possible. Here’s the one I made for my 4″ table, holes are tapped 10-32 on a 3/8″ grid. (My workshop is, for the most part, non metrificated !)

John

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi again,

I think the 6″ vice sounds the better size with a plate made for clamping material . Great advice and things to think about. Cheers

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

A T-slotted plate with parallel rather than radial slots can be handy too (pictured on a dividing head here, but handy on a rotary table too):

The dividing head is from Vevor by the way, the spring clip on the sector arms needed a little filing, but good value nonetheless.

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

Hi, I bought a Vertex 160mm, but 1st thing on receiving I realised, the 3 slots aere imprctical to hold anything, so I went ahead and made a 200mm aliminium plate and bolt it to the 3 slots.
1-I then drill & tread multiple holes (Lot of work).
2-Made easy centre MT2 location to locate the Rotary table.
3-I made my own clamping system.
a)For stops of rotary movement, or any other stops required.
b)Position blocks to position the object on the table off the table.
c)Holding down holders. All of these use 8mm bolts to make the clamping possible.

Its now a pleasure to use. The clamping is flexable because of all the holes, and I can drill a few more if needed. I also used short grubscrews to fill holes to keep swarf out of holes not used. If used I just screw the grubscrew down to the bottom, enough thread left for clamping.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Teucher, I assume you are actually wanting a rotary table, not a rotary vice? Always good to use common names for items here.

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi,

Yes im after a rotary table. Im just unsure of the best option for my mill and thought i might ask for a bit of advice.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Used the way I use it a 6″ rotary table being a good fit on my WM18,  I guess it would be a shade too big on a WM16.

Headroom is the main issue.

• When the table is mounted vertically, say for making gears, it eats more than 7″ of height!  Depending on what you do, it might well get in the way.
• Headroom is less of an issue when the table is horizontal except I usually fit a 3-jaw chuck because it’s the quickest and easiest way for me to hold the majority of the work I do.   The problem is that a big 3-jaw chuck mounted on top of a rotary table also eats a lot headroom.

So, a 6″ or 8″ rotary table isn’t bonkers on a WM16 provided it’s mostly mounted flat without a chuck. I bought a 6″ rotary table for my WM18 because it covers both vertical and horizontal cutting, and there’s still enough room for a chuck – mostly. Not sure the same table would deliver so well on a WM16 because there’s less space for it.

Note Tony’s warning about weight too – an 8″ rotary table is heavier than I care to lift on my own.

Whether or not to invest in a tailstock for the table is another ‘it depends’ question.   The work I do almost never requires one, so maybe a waste of money.  However, when a couple of jobs needed end-support, I was delighted to have one.

Dave

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi Dave,

Thats make a lot of sense, i think il compromise and maybe go for middle ground and get a 5″ table , that was my original thinking. Due to height once fitted and weight and mill size , i think the 5 will be best option. I may wait and see if i ever need a tailstock and if so purchase it then. I have a habit of buying things i think il need and never use them haha.

Cheers

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

One comment on Rotary rables, my preference is for one with a 90:1 ratio.

This should give greater because one turn of the handle provides only 4 degrees rotation of the table.

At times this can be a nuisance but makes calculations a little easier (A 40:1 ratio means 9 degrees per turn of the handle, a 36:1 means 10 degrees per turn).

If you have any ambitions of gear cutting, then buy the division plates, and a Tailstock.

I aligned the tailstock to my HV6 by boring a 2MT blank arbor to be a close fit in the barrel of the Tailstock.

With the clamp screws loose on the tailstock, inserting the barrel into the bore of the arbor, in the HV6, aligns the tailstock for height,so that the clamp screws can then be tightened.

The key ways on the tailstock wer different from the T slots on the mill, so I made up and fitted stepped dowels.

HTH

Howard

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