Robinson Engine

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I have built four four of the Alyn foundry hot air engines,they came from the early batches of castings,the iron machined easily,they need care to get the power piston and bore just right,mine were honed,treat the internals passages as if they were a two stroke engine ports,round off sharp corners and make sure the passages between cylinder and base line up to get a free passage for the air,(just like tuning the Viliers motor cycle engines back in the 1600s. The main base casting proved troublesome to cast as it was as per original with lots of internal cores and scrap rate at times was too high for economical manufacture. The brass linkages are a bit oversize and look better and more too scale if the they are made thinner.I think the sketch sent in by Ian is the one I sent in to model engineer a long time ago showing how I modified the sprung disc valve with a thread bush so that the travel of the disc could be adjusted to regulate the speed,This mod is well worth making. I now have a small full size genuine (not a copy) Robinson which needs some attention and am currently working on a Garner no 1 spirit engine ,Gardeners name for petrol .

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/03/2016 10:12:01:

Thanks, Jason

Do you know what power one of these half-scale versions would produce?

MichaelG.

From Graham Corry

"the answer is " fractional " . The number 6 that weighs half a Ton only developed 1/2 HP!"

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks Jason, and Graham

That confirms my fears

… my guess was 1/16 HP

MichaelG.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Power output- I will be happy if my model, when finished, has enough power to overcome the friction. Any more is a bonus.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 01/03/2016 22:03:19:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/03/2016 21:32:35:

I need Michael G. to track down the patent for me!

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Come on, Neil … it's not that difficult.

**LINK**

MichaelG.

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Note: Various other patents are referenced in the text.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/03/2016 22:05:16

Can you find me his original patent for the 'right angled' arrangement – my book says UK11,346 of 1886? Google patents only comes up with his patent for a gas engine in that year, and espace.net just gives me nonsense!

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 02/03/2016 16:56:27:

Can you find me his original patent for the 'right angled' arrangement – my book says UK11,346 of 1886? Google patents only comes up with his patent for a gas engine in that year, and espace.net just gives me nonsense!

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Maybe not until I can get into Manchester Public Library & look through the hard copies.

Meanwhile; here's an excellent guidance document **LINK**

MichaelG.

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  You may, however, like this

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/03/2016 17:35:48

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

That's his original 1881 UK patent, 5056.

My book seems to have the numbers and dates of the other UK patents right, I wonder why the 1886 one isn't showing up.

Neil

[Alyn FoundryParticipant @alynfoundry54186]

Hello All.

Jason told me about this thread, so I've joined up!!

Attached is a photo of a very early Robinson patent engine No 33C. Owned by Mr D Allen.

Kind regards, Graham.

Hmmm, I can't find a way of uploading a photo…….HELP!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Nigel McB, Graham Corry sends his regards, you must have been a good customer

He also has some more details of Robinson engines that may be on their way to me.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looks like our posts and PMs crossed while your first post was waiting for me to approve it.

This will tell you about posting photos on this forum but in the mean time this is the one.

[Alyn FoundryParticipant @alynfoundry54186]

Many thanks Jason.

Just to clarify the picture, No 33C, might be the thirty third size C engine built by Potts. Not built by AE & H Robinson.

Interesting air cooling and major owner modifications. David found many alterations, presumably the owners were looking to create a GT engine!!

Kind regards, Graham.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Alyn Foundry on 03/03/2016 14:42:57:

Hello All.

Jason told me about this thread, so I've joined up!!

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Welcome, Graham

and thanks for the very informative input.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hello Graham,

The book i have hereby Robert Sier say 'several Manchester and London firms, including Pearce & Son, Norris & Henry and L. Gardener & Sons.' produced designs to the patent.

They may not have been hugely powerful, but they must have been a familiar sight to many people.round the turn of the century.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

See page 30 of this:

**LINK**

… now that would be an interesting contraption to model.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Do you mean P.29?

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/03/2016 08:27:31:

Do you mean P.29?

Neil

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No, Neil … I mean p30 … paragraph about the Robinson engine.

[quote]

Such engines produced only a fraction of a horsepower but were useful for driving extractor fans or in some cases an extraordinary contraption of a rotary hair brush for men’s hair driven by a long elastic rubber rope.

[/quote]

 

MichaelG.

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Edit: Are you and KWIL in some sort of conspiracy ?

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/03/2016 11:18:15

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

No, I realy thought you meant the complex linkages on the Bailey engine!

I'm already familiar with the hair combing machine.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/03/2016 11:30:25:

I'm already familiar with the hair combing machine.

.

Do you have a picture? … or a link to any more info. ?

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Some British railway companies used them to drive water pumps at railway stations to fill the water tower. the 10" one in my photo is 1/3hp at 120rpm, but it just needs a few sticks of fire wood, or a shovel of coal every now and then if you see it's starting to slow down, and in those day's (early 20th century), there were many parts of Britain that din't have electricity (Mum knew gas lighting in Scotland in the 1920s &30s)

Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ian S C on 04/03/2016 11:55:45:

Some British railway companies used them to drive water pumps at railway stations to fill the water tower. the 10" one in my photo is 1/3hp at 120rpm, but it just needs a few sticks of fire wood, or a shovel of coal every now and then if you see it's starting to slow down, and in those day's (early 20th century), there were many parts of Britain that din't have electricity (Mum knew gas lighting in Scotland in the 1920s &30s)

Ian S C

We rented a holiday cottage in 2009 that was lit by gas – it was 4 miles froma main road and 1/4 mile from the access track…

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/03/2016 11:40:57:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/03/2016 11:30:25:

I'm already familiar with the hair combing machine.

.

Do you have a picture? … or a link to any more info. ?

MichaelG.

I saw aan engraving. I recall it was very simple – loops hanging down from a layshaft on the ceiling that you just 'hooked' a comb on a handle into.

Neil

[Alyn FoundryParticipant @alynfoundry54186]

Hello Neil.

If you require any in depth information about construction please ask. I built several of my kits for customers who couldn't do it themselves. In fact I found this engine one of the quickest builds in my range. Piston to bore fit was the most critical, with the prototype we used a tool post grinder fitted with a Diamond lap to finish the cylinder however subsequent builds saw just minimal finishing with fine Emery cloth!! The large diameter bore made things so much easier.

I also have the original tracing done at A1 just like Gardner's in 1:1 ratio.

Kind regards, Graham.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/03/2016 13:53:00:

I saw aan engraving. I recall it was very simple – loops hanging down from a layshaft on the ceiling that you just 'hooked' a comb on a handle into.

Neil

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Thanks, Neil

It might not be such an interesting contraption after-all

… 'eye of the beholder' and all that.

MichaelG.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

When I was young there was a local chapel with a hot air engine driving the air pump for the organ, I never saw it running, it later was replaced with an electric motor. I did not take much notice at the time but it had the looks of a Robinson. If only I had known- my dad worked on the railway, all our friends did, rides on a tank engine etc.. But it was just normal then and no body thought to record things. This would be about 1950.

[Author]

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