Robinson Engine

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

i managed to find this excellent section of a Robinson Engine, a B4 of 1914 on the Science Museum website.

It shows two rarely modelled features:

the regenerator (which makes it a proper Stirling Engine) the displacer is stuffed with wire wool.

A valve on the end of the power cylinder. I would have guessed this is to let air replenish the the system,. but it appears more complex than that with a plate blocking the transfer tub. is this sprung or does the nub on the piston open it except when the piston is at TDC.

I need Michael G. to track down the patent for me!

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

This might help Neil

**LINK**

The end in question might be a pressure relief valve to prevent it getting higher than atmospheric or some figure close to it.

The patent was easy to find but people seldom give working model type instructions in patents

**LINK**

John

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PS LOL Here's a model Jason may have built  http://users.moscow.com/oiseming/lc_ant_p/pic_Prj4.htm

 

Edited By Ajohnw on 01/03/2016 22:03:25

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/03/2016 21:32:35:

I need Michael G. to track down the patent for me!

.

Come on, Neil … it's not that difficult.

**LINK**

MichaelG.

.

Note: Various other patents are referenced in the text.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/03/2016 22:05:16

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

To avoid duplication:

The book linked in my post here, has some useful description.

MichaelG.

.

Incidentally … This modern patent, by Philips, cites Robinson and several other early patents.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/03/2016 22:45:18

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

How about that valve being used as a speed/stop control?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/03/2016 21:32:35:

It shows two rarely modelled features:

Neil

 

Depends on who's model you look at all the Alyn Robinsons had the valve and regenerator

Edited By JasonB on 02/03/2016 08:29:41

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks folks.

Before I check out your links, I explored my heat engines book in bed last night. The valve is a throttle – a form of governor. It also lists the patent numbers and dates… sorry for making you all work so hard

The patent is interesting, the section doesn't show a water passage. The throttle valve is governor operated, something I have never seen made. It does, however, detail a gas jet and even a chimney arrangement.

That section of a later engine is excellent, the only detail difference being a water passage between the transfer passage and the displacer rod – but is that box a water reservoir or a guard for the flywheel? The latter seems unlikely.

Most striking is that the displacer/regenerator is a close fit in the upper part of the displacer.

Also nice to see an 1880 example in action.

Much food for thought, thanks all.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 02/03/2016 10:23:34

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There are 2 video's by Phillips on youtube showing where they got with their engine. It can be seen liquefying air when it's driven backwards.

The patent does mention the "governor" Fig 11 and also Fig 8 which looks more like it might work.

The Russian link is interesting from a modelling point of view.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 02/03/2016 09:53:31

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

There is an interesting hot air engine article in The Engineer 0403 1959

Includes Robinson engines

Graces

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Slight digression:

More books by Kennedy, Rankin d.1917 are available:

**LINK**

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ady1 on 02/03/2016 09:58:05:

There is an interesting hot air engine article in The Engineer 0403 1959

Includes Robinson engines

Graces

.

Excellent link, Ady

… Must find part 1 of the article.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thought I had it tucked away somewhere, this is the section through the Alyn Robinson engine which is a close representation of the full size, you can see the valve, wire wool fille dregenerator and all the properly cored passages unlike some models that you have to drill achieve the same effect. Graham had/has access to a lot of full size engine so his models are true to teh originals.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Jason

Do you know what power one of these half-scale versions would produce?

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'll ask Graham and get back to you.

J

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks for the extra info, especially the dimensioned drawing.

Are Alyn planning on selling castings again any time soon?

Neil

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Edgar Westburys Robinson Engine has issues and an interest fix article was printed in ME3467 which budding builders may find useful in their own build

3467

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Neil, Anson Engine Museum will do the Gardner and Retlas and have patterns for a lot of the others but not sure when or if they will make them generally available. I have an order in for one of the others via Graham but he won't be producing them himself or as Alyn.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Ady1 on 02/03/2016 10:33:00:

Edgar Westburys Robinson Engine has issues and an interest fix article was printed in ME3467 which budding builders may find useful in their own build

3467

Thanks Ady. That's of great interest to anyone thinking of designing their own. The more they are gone into the worse it gets so clues always help.

John

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[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Very useful information, I've been searching for a year and drawing my layout,I was just about to start but will now have yet another think. As far as I can find out the smallest real engine was 7 1/2" bore, I'm making mine 1/3 scale, so 2 1/2" bore. I found a brass beer pump with this bore, so that fixed it. All the photo's Ive found are different, some have the throttle valve and some don't. Some have the water tower, I'm assuming that is what it is. Jason- do you have that dimensioned drawing with the cut -off dims' ?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks All,

Lots and lots to think about…

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The Alyn one is based on a No4 engine which had 4.5" bore so their 1/2 scale model is 2.25" bore.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ady1 on 02/03/2016 09:58:05:

There is an interesting hot air engine article in The Engineer 0403 1959

Includes Robinson engines

Graces

I followed up the Oklahoma Dome in that issue:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Dome

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The Robinson based in Christchurch NZ has a 10" bore. Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks Ian, so the vertical 'box' is a radiator.

Seems the valve can be either sprung or worked by a Watt-style governor.

Neil

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