Riveting

[Quentin ReidfordParticipant @quentinreidford69026]

Can some-one please tell me how much a rivet should project from the face of the metal in order to form a correct round headed head – if you see what I mean.

Using two snaps there must be a formula such as one or one and a half diameters projecting from the face of the steel plate to hammer down into a snap to form a perfect head – I have searched and searched but cannot find this critical dimension anywhere. Any advice would be most grateful before I make a further mess  of my current project.

 

Thanks in anticipation 

[Quentin ReidfordParticipant @quentinreidford69026]

How to perfectly (!) create a double ended rivet

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

About one and a half times the diameter or a fraction over is a good place to start. the actual figure is 1.6 times the diameter

 

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 28/10/2009 20:42:29

[Quentin ReidfordParticipant @quentinreidford69026]

Jason,

 

Thanks for that information, does it apply to all diameters ?

I’m using 1/8″ and 1/16″ rivets?

 

 

[geoffrey passeyParticipant @geoffreypassey96132]

Fine, we have the length,what tips are there for shortening rivets ? I seem to remember an article in ME a long time ago.Any help to find it ?. Thank you.

[Quentin ReidfordParticipant @quentinreidford69026]

I’m just going to source a suitable strip of metal, in my case 3/32″ , drill a 1/16″ hole in a corner and poke a rivet through the joint and the plate and snip off the excess! 

[cParticipant @c]

Lots of ME articles that talk about riveting; you could start with “Changing Hindsight into Foresight” part 4 by Mick Appleyard.  ME Volume 195 page 629 ( issue 4261 25 Nov 2005)

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

Well that’s when the fun starts- trying to hold the plates, and the second snap, and the hammer, and trying to keep all square so the second snap doesn’t skid off and the head starts central because if it doesn’t……

 

In my somewhat limited experience double headed riveting was somewhat easier in theory than in practise, but I’m quite willing to accept that I may have missed a trick somewhere along the line.. .

 

Shortening – set the rivet with a plate of the right thickness, with an allowance for the excess left by a pair of small bolt croppers. Hold all steady and zap with an air hammer which has the dome cut in the tool. 1 second: perfect double round head rivet.

 

Air hammer – £20 from Axminster – No I don’t – wish I did

[Laurence BParticipant @laurenceb]

There is a good description of the late Martin Evans’ method of forming such rivet heads in his book ‘The Model Steam locomotive’ This involves the use of three rivet snaps to gently form the round head.

Also,I believe Dave Noble sells (or used to) a rivetting tool which forms double headed rivets.

As Meryk says-this certainly is far easier in theory than practice!

Edited By Laurence B on 29/10/2009 10:50:45

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Steel plate the desired thickness,drill for the rivit size(unless your only using one rivit,drillfor quite a number)Clamp the loaded plate to a piece of wood(so the rivits don’t fall out)Hold the lot in the vise,get to work with a sharp cold chisel.IAN S C

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Try those electrical pliers for setting electrical crimps.  They normally have cropping holes for metric screws,  but they would crop a rivet as well,  and leave the end square – just like that.  You could put a washer or two under the rivet head to adjust the finished length.

[Jim NolanParticipant @jimnolan76764]

Try sapphire products limited there web site has setting dimensions that I have used many times and found to be spot on.

> >

http://www.sapphireproducts.co.uk/641t1.htm

 

Jim

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Has anyone tried using an SDS drill with the rotary action turned off as a rivetting tool?

 

Brian Wood

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Quite a few of the larger scale traction engine builders use this method but keep the rotary action as it acts like a rivit spinner. At much over 1/4″ a hydralic press seems favorite

 

Have a look here

 

Jason

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Thank you Jason, what useful information, perhaps another improvement to experiment with would be to use some graphite powder on the rivet head to reduce the wear rate a little on the snap. I am nowhere near ready to attempt it yet, but like to plan ahead a bit .

 

Brian

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Perhaps at some point David will reproduce the screw down riveting tool articles that have been in M/E in the past.

 

  Regards  Ian.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I have found that it is essential to close the plates together with a tubular tool, then lightly hammer the rivet end to fill the holes, this barrels the rivet stem, then use the closing snap. It also helps if the cut end is flat [sheared or filed] as this helps to keep the closing force square to the stem.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thats the way I was always taught, set the rivit then form the head with a snap, if the plates are not closed up the rivit can swell into the gap and no amount of hammering will close it up.

 

Jason

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

hi    Many years ago I started building the Allchin using reeves castings,the wheel rims were cast alloy,after some experimenting with various rivets,I settled on using annealed copper rivets for the spokes,I started by making a press to squeeze the rivets,it produced good heads on samples but cracked the cast wheel rim due to the shank of the rivet swelling.  has any one rivitted an Allchin alloy rim successfully with good forming of the rivet heads and how did they do it,  i have seen a couple of allchins where rivetting was poor I would like to know how to get very heads.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Both the minnie in my avitar and the current 2″ Fowler I’m working on have cast alloy rims. I used steel rivits for the strakes but copper for the spokes, all just formed with a snap and hammer, have a look at the pics and see what you think.

 

Minnie , Fowler and Fowler

 

You may also want to register on Traction Talk Forum and have a read through some of the posts in their model section, there are a few on wheel building and riviting.

 

http://www.tractiontalkforum.com/

 

Jason

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Look up AVDEL rivets on the net.  When I were an apprentice,  we used hundreds of rivet clamps when making aircraft panels.  Every other hole had a rivet clamp in it to hold the panel plates together. The ‘peg’ of the clamp goes through the hole, and when screwed tight,  it clamps all the plates together whilst you put a rivet in the neighbouring holes.  You need different sized clamps for each diferent diameter.

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

Agreed – got loads of them from the time I used to build racers. Big big help when holding sheets together. Mine have 1/8 shanks, but its easy enough to open up to the correct dimension come the time.

 

Still your idea of using a predrilled plate behind is better, because then you can cope with any size of hole, so long as you are not relying on all the Avdels for alignment.

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