Rising costs of materials

[Brian RutherfordParticipant @brianrutherford79058]

Hi

I ordered a block of en1a yesterday 3×2 x 1&1/4 from my local rapid metals.

Couldn't get a price over the phone as the chap wasn't at his computer "but don't worry it won't be a lot" was the reply.

Went to collect later to be told "that will be £18.00". I won't repeat what I said here . Ended up paying £13.80 which I think is well over priced

Before Covid you could have bought a piece of Brass that size for less

[Brian RutherfordParticipant @brianrutherford79058]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

It has gone through the roof here in Oz too. I just paid the equivalent to 30 Quid for two pieces of 3/8" round bright mild steel bar, each 2 metres long. Would have been less than 10 Quid pre-Covid.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

It's much worse in industry!

We are seeing constant rises in steel costs and huge lead times (as much as 12 months).

Material quotes are often valid for only a few days, but I have been told some prices are only valid if ordered immediately!

Jim

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Would EN32B have done, £3.60 per inch from M-Machine

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

pre lockdown mild steel offcuts at my local stockholder were £1000 per ton now £2400 plus vat

[Brian RutherfordParticipant @brianrutherford79058]

Jason , just about any steel would have done. If they had told me the price when I ordered I would have gone elsewhere. Pity because rapid metals were always the cheapest supplier and better choice plus being local no postage either

Edited By Brian Rutherford on 08/04/2022 15:57:32

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

I machined my 5” wheels from cast iron round bar, but machined my 3 1/2” wheels from rectangular steel bdms. Worth looking at material options as well as form when considering price. Have to agree prices have rocketed over the past couple of years, been looking at sheet material prices and there seems quite a variance.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Brian Rutherford on 08/04/2022 15:42:42:

Jason , just about any steel would have done. If they had told me the price when I ordered I would have gone elsewhere. Pity because rapid metals were always the cheapest supplier and better choice plus being local no postage either

Edited By Brian Rutherford on 08/04/2022 15:57:32

So this is really a thread to ‘non-recommend’ that particular supplier?

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

My sons now run the family company, and they use an awful lot of plastics. and have seen the prices soar over the last 2 years. The have negotiated a new deal with a UK based American company, for US produced plastics cheaper than any from mainland Europe. They are pretty convinced that some of the rises of unjustified!

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Ah well my personal scrap box must be worth a fortune now.

Doug

[Brian RutherfordParticipant @brianrutherford79058]

Posted by not done it yet on 08/04/2022 19:20:38:

Posted by Brian Rutherford on 08/04/2022 15:42:42:

So this is really a thread to ‘non-recommend’ that particular supplier?

I wasn't criticising the supplier merely pointing out the rising costs. As always it pays to shop around and to get a firm price. Usually I get the price on line from them and then order. This time the option wasn't available and I was shocked at the price.

Three years ago I made a rear toolpost from a block of en1a from the same supplier that was twice the size and was less than a fiver

[Brian RutherfordParticipant @brianrutherford79058]

Posted by not done it yet on 08/04/2022 19:20:38:

Posted by Brian Rutherford on 08/04/2022 15:42:42:

So this is really a thread to ‘non-recommend’ that particular supplier?

I wasn't criticising the supplier merely pointing out the rising costs. As always it pays to shop around and to get a firm price. Usually I get the price on line from them and then order. This time the option wasn't available and I was shocked at the price.

Three years ago I made a rear toolpost from a block of en1a from the same supplier that was twice the size and was less than a fiver

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Just look up 'price gouging' on Google, the pandemic & now Putin have created a perfect & ongoing opportunity for the many rip off merchants.

Tony

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Our hobby is starting to get expensive but I had a pleasant surprise recently when I bought some RHS steel.

The list price is $76.88 / 8m length ($9.61/m) and I asked for a full length but 500mm was cut off the end and got the remainder at the off-cut rate (25% discount)..

My plan is for the next time is to check if there are any off cuts and if not, ask for a 500mm piece ($9.61 x 0.5m + $2.50 fee for cutting = $7.30). Then buy the remaining off cut at the discount price ($9.61 x 7.5m x 0.75 = $54.05)

So instead of paying $76.88 full price, only pay $61.36 (It's worth trying )

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

The last 'financial crisis' hit as an apparent surprise. It shouldn't have been, since they happen regularly enough and always as a result of too much easy money and profligacy. The difference was that this time the global response was to reduce interest rates instead of traditionally increasing them – perhaps as an experiment in financial engineering? Follow that with the pandemic and huge global government spendings and there is a lot for the financial world to be grateful for in a huge cost increase devaluing currency without direct blame – suddenly all those loans become relatively smaller.

pgk

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

I was always told that any hobby is a pleasant way of spending money

Roy

ps. If I stopped eating I'd be well off

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

A free weeks back bought a few bits from my local supplier in Brum, Edwards Metals. No problems but advised not to reckon on any prices staying the same as they were changing with every delivery.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Consider a second morgage before buying any copper based metals, eg brass, bronze Etc. Noel.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

One club here, is re – lining the walls of a wooden storage shed with sheets of fairly thin ish plywood, about 10mm. A few weeks ago, they cost £42, the member went back this week for more and same quantity was £55!

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Not just materials food has rocketed had not been to a shop for a few weeks my 6 pints of milk from £1:40 now £2

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Given that Ukraine is (was) one of the biggest suppliers of steel billets this is hardly surprising. I did hear in the news that their largest steel mill had been partially destroyed too so even if the conflict does end production won't be soon to resume.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 10/04/2022 00:25:32:

Given that Ukraine is (was) one of the biggest suppliers of steel billets this is hardly surprising. I did hear in the news that their largest steel mill had been partially destroyed too so even if the conflict does end production won't be soon to resume.

Unfortunately, serious though this is, it's not the reason prices of many commodities are rising across the board. Normally, Ukraine makes about 1% of the world's steel output [World Steel in Figures], and losing it would cause a temporary bump. These are not normal times!

When war breaks out in Europe, it causes a massive loss of confidence across the financial system. Partly because of the risk violence might escalate, completely disrupting global trade or worse, partly because uncertainty causes people to cancel or defer purchases and to look for safer sources of supply. UK imports from the Ukraine include quite a lot of food:

So, at the moment, UK food importers will be trying to source food from elsewhere, cereals coming most obviously from North America. So the UK and all the other countries who bought cereals from Ukraine are now bidding against each other for what is available. Supply is interrupted, shelves empty, and prices rise until the system rebalances.

Looking at what Russia exports to the UK reveals more stuff that now has to be bought in competition with the rest of the world:

Note the UK imports $19 billion dollars worth of 'Pearls, Precious Stones, Metals, and Coins' each year. My guess is this is mostly Metals other than Iron, Steel and Aluminium. So we can expect these to rise in price as well.

The value of Russian Exports to the UK hints at just how much pain aggressively applied Western sanctions will inflict on ordinary Russians. Mr Putin's war isn't going well militarily, he's trashed Russia's international reputation, and now faces years of self-inflicted poverty. Trouble is, when countries put a strong man in power who cannot be removed peaceably, they run a high risk he is a megalomaniac who will ruin everything. Thousands of examples throughout history and in modern times. All this changes minor and major financial decision making: Brian and other hobbyists are thinking twice before buying metals, so are companies, major multi-nationals, whole countries, and economic blocs like the EU.

This is on top of a major slump and surge in demand caused by COVID and other adventures. The Office of Budget Responsibility publish this graph of UK inflation, showing that the pound is losing value rapidly at the moment, and recovery is not expected until 2024: Ukraine puts this in doubt.

That trouble was afoot appears in 2016, when inflation suddenly rose over 18 months by nearly 3% and then recovered slowly between 2018 and 2021, when it took off again. The first bump is the cost of uncertainty due to Brexit. The second is more to do with COVID and material shortages, but it coincides here with the UK actually leaving the EU, and now the repercussions of the war are likely to make UK inflation worse. Nobody knows for sure: world trade is destabilised, and it's unclear how or when it will end. I hope the OBR are right.

Bottom line, because the value of the pound is sinking and prices are rising, it's better to spend now rather than later. Stock up while stuff is still relatively cheap because it's unlikely prices will drop in the near future or that the value of saved pounds will recover. But watch out for sellers who realise what customers are doing and hoist prices in advance!

Interesting times ahead.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Steel prices were rising before Ukraine got messy. They blamed it on Covid, then on logistics/shipping supply chain issues, then on truck driver shortages, then coal shortages and now it's back to Covid again with the latest lockdowns in China. Long story short: price gouging. And once the price has gone up and proved that the market will bear it, don't hold you breath waiting for it to come down.

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

3 x 6m lengths of 30×6 black rolled delivered just cost 40 quid . (Local fabricator ..i asked if he'd put my order in with his to get free delivery )

Not too bad ?

 

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Edited By Hacksaw on 12/04/2022 16:42:59

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