Ring making ideas

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

Hello all.

I need to make a few 250mm and 350mm rings from 8mm MS round bar as trial material for a project.

I have tried bending forks on the anvil, wrapping a coil round a former but the results are not sufficiently repeatable.

A ring roller is the obvious solution but I cannot make the investment before I know the project is feasible.

Has anyone used a pipe or conduit bender to make complete circles?

 

Edited By charadam on 23/08/2012 15:15:53

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

No, but here's a Russian way of doing it on YouTube.

All you need is a lathe made in Moscow from old T34 tank parts

Andy

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Is there any jewelery forums you can go on that would advise you better!

Bob

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I was told that good full circle can be bent using a pipe or conduit bender style machine using a special double depth former. The initial result is approximately 1 1/2 turns of close coupled spring coil which can then be cut, dressed into a single plane and the ends joined. Obviously arrangements have to be made for partial dismantling of the centre former so that it can be screwed out. The overlap is essential to avoid an imperfect arc at the ends. The rings I saw looked to be very circular. Probably a fair bit of devil in the detail and practice involved before the process is sorted.

8 mm round bar will take a fair old heave to bend.

Clive

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

Depends on the accuracy required but rings can be formed by pressing onto something like a wide shallow VEE block and repeatedly moving the job until a circular or any other shape is completed. A fly press is ideal but a vice may do. Colin

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Posted by Andyf on 23/08/2012 16:48:45:

No, but here's a Russian way of doing it on YouTube.

All you need is a lathe made in Moscow from old T34 tank parts

Andy

Brilliant; could possibly scaled down for the heavier home shop lathes.

But the method here I find even better: Bruteforce!

Greeetings, Hansrudolf

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Plenty of people have made traction engine wheels using bending rolls, even bending the angle for them as well as plate for the outer.

As long as you have some precaution against sideways distortion (two guide plates?) rolls should do the job well.

Neil

[Anonymous]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 23/08/2012 21:54:24:

Plenty of people have made traction engine wheels using bending rolls, even bending the angle for them as well as plate for the outer.

Like this?

Andrew

[WeldsolParticipant @weldsol]

You could find a local metal shop that have rollers and they could do them for you, most sheet metal rollers have grooves for wire / rod forming . Well at least mine do

Paul

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 24/08/2012 10:12:49:

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 23/08/2012 21:54:24:

Plenty of people have made traction engine wheels using bending rolls, even bending the angle for them as well as plate for the outer.

Like this?

Andrew

They look intersting what thickness will they roll?

Steve Larner

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Depends how accurate you need them. I make them that sort of size by bending round a mandral in a big vice. Needs a trial to find the mandral diameter, smaller than the inside of the ring. Camp one end of material to the manderal and bend, go more than a circle and cut off to size. If you don't stop it is quite easy to bend up to 1/2" sq. and quite accurate with a bit of practice.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The usual way to keep rod in line when using rolls is to have " wire grooves" in them, look at a lot of old sets of rolls and you will see various sized grooves in the ends.

Andrew I will pick your brains about those rolls on Saturday, need to make some for my next traction engine.

J

[Anonymous]

I don't know what thickness the rolls will bend. They were designed to be used with 3" by 3/16" and 5-1/4" by 3/16". Time will tell if my calculations are correct. The design is essentially upside down, ie, the material bends downwards, rather than upwards. That makes the adjustment of the third roller much simpler. The rolls are designed to be bolted to the table of my horizontal mill, the wheel rims eventually forming around the rolls and table.

Jason: I'll stick the rolls in the back of the car and bring them down on Saturday.

Regards,

Andrew

Edit note: The original design had deep 1/4" grooves incorporated so that I could also form the T-piece rings. However, I ended up buying these as laser cut quarter circles to weld together, so the grooves were not needed.

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 24/08/2012 14:35:37

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Hi Andrew,

I was thinking of knocking something similar together to do the rims for my 3" Fowler B5. Do you have any drawings?

What diameter are the rolls?

cheers

CB

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

CB this is what you need to knock up Proven to work on Fowlers

J

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Darn it Jason and I was thinking of just using on motor

But then I wasn't planning on rolling fully formed T rings lol.

CB

[Anonymous]

CB: Yes, I do have drawings. The whole thing was designed in Alibre, so I have 3D models of all parts, plus a 3D assembly. I also have 2D drawings of all parts, although they are only dimensioned sufficiently to allow me to make the parts. The design was based around material, and gear cutter, that I already had. The gears are 13 tooth, 5DP, 20ºPA. The geared rolls are 2.475" in diameter and the free roller is 2.5".

If you want drawings PM me an email address.

Regards,

Andrew

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 24/08/2012 22:51:02:

CB: Yes, I do have drawings. The whole thing was designed in Alibre, so I have 3D models of all parts, plus a 3D assembly. I also have 2D drawings of all parts, although they are only dimensioned sufficiently to allow me to make the parts. The design was based around material, and gear cutter, that I already had. The gears are 13 tooth, 5DP, 20ºPA. The geared rolls are 2.475" in diameter and the free roller is 2.5".

If you want drawings PM me an email address.

Regards,

Andrew

looks like a good project for MEW.

Could you post the drawings on the web as they look very useful

Steve Larner

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Charadam ,

On the original topic :

Bending these rings is very easy to do hot .

Get your bar up to very bright red/orange , anchor one end in a slot in your former (axis vertical) , hold the other end with hollow bit tongs and just walk around with it . Make 1.25 turns and trim later . Former needs to be about 3% undersize .

Can certainly be done in one heat but no problem re-heating as nescessary . Better sometimes to get a helper to play a torch flame on bar to maintain the temperature while you do the bending .

Any irregularities can be sorted by tapping down affected bits after another heat though you should not get any problems if bar is kept hot enough . 'Hot enough' means being in the plastic state – roughly very bright red/orange as mentioned above – but it would pay to get a feel for the difference between just red hot and this plastic state by playing with scrap metal .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

Thanks to all, but I see that my original question has been "lost in space".

I have already tried bending on a former, hot, cold and last Tuesday.

Loved the "back country machines" in the Youtube clips!

There is no time for me to make a ring roller – but the tool illustrated would certainly do the job!

Probably my cheapest, easiest and most repeatable for trials purposes will be to bend semicircles in a pipe bender and then cut & weld to suit.

Again, thanks to all, especially Springbok who suggested I ask about my 250 and 350mm rings on a jewellery forum.

Hippo nose rings perhaps?

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by charadam on 25/08/2012 23:59:58:

Thanks to all, but I see that my original question has been "lost in space".

I have already tried bending on a former, hot, cold and last Tuesday.

Loved the "back country machines" in the Youtube clips!

There is no time for me to make a ring roller – but the tool illustrated would certainly do the job!

Probably my cheapest, easiest and most repeatable for trials purposes will be to bend semicircles in a pipe bender and then cut & weld to suit.

Again, thanks to all, especially Springbok who suggested I ask about my 250 and 350mm rings on a jewellery forum.

Hippo nose rings perhaps?

Heat end of 8mm to red and bend 50mm at 90 degrees,

weld bent setion to pipe of appox diameter.

Heat rod to cherry and pull around tube. once started if Black ms used may not need the heat on the bigger ring

keep heating and pulling round untill like a coil spring.

When enough turns cut down one side with angle grinde and twist rings true, adjust length and weld up

Steve

[Anonymous]

I'd prefer to check out operation of the bending rolls before I publish drawings for all and sundry. Mind you, when that will happen is anybody's guess.

Personally I wouldn't have thought that the rolls would be suitable for MEW. After all, bending rolls are bending rolls, what else can one say!

Regards,

Andrew

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

I have heard of another method of making TE wheels. Make up to size, strips of steel for rims, mill shallow slot, roll up. Bend up on the width, narrow strip of steel which will fit in the slot in the inside of the rim, weld up. Another thing, use AC welding current and you get a bulbous convex fillet but weld with DC current and you get a concave fillet, which looks better.

[Anonymous]

DMB: I am planning to weld up the rims and T-rings using the MMA function on my TIG welder. I had rather assumed that MMA welding was DC, but blow me down, I've just looked in the manual and it says MMA welding can be AC, DC+ or DC-. You learn something every day; and now that I've learnt something I can take the rest of the day off.

Thanks,

Andrew

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