Righthand Tool known as a Left?

[Thomas Gregory 1Participant @thomasgregory1]

I bought a R/H HSS tool from Chronos for my new to me Hobbymat just to get me started, or at least I thought I bought a R/H tool.

Link

It came through and looking at it in my hand, it's what I would call a L/H tool. A Soba diagram online supports this.

Chronos has said it cuts from L-R (but are calling it a R/H tool) when I got in touch but have gone quiet when I've asked if they've sent me the wrong one as the description in the link above says Right Hand in it (all their adverts for different sizes are saying this). If I'm honest I've not been impressed with their communications and think I'll put them to the bottom of the list when buying the rest of the tooling I need.

Is this something stupid like they are know differently between the UK and USA and I've picked up on the American way?

[Thomas Gregory 1Participant @thomasgregory1]

Because they said no question is a stupid question.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

it's about direction of cut, it can't produce a finished shoulder on the left hand side. So it's for working to the right.

You need both anyway.

[egaParticipant @ega]

This general question was thrashed out in an earlier thread but I have since been reminded of left and right hand aviation snips, another ingredient to throw into the pot!

Edited By ega on 17/11/2021 12:01:59

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Very odd.

I used to puzzle over this until someone suggested I should think of having a job to do directly in front of me. If I pick up a tool in my right hand and attack the job from the right hand side and the tool cuts cuts then it's a right hand tool.

The tool pictured in the link seems to me to be on it's side. If I mentally turn it so that the chip-breaker is on the top where it should be, then the tool will cut from left to right, so it's a left hand tool.

Anyone else see it differently?

Rod

Edited By Rod Renshaw on 17/11/2021 12:08:29

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Left-handed aviation snips will cut a straight line or a curve to the left.

It's about the curve in the metal not the handedness of the operator.

Rod

[Thomas Gregory 1Participant @thomasgregory1]

This was the Soba picture I found.

I know I'll need both, and many others but I have a list with about a grands worth of "bits" I would like and thought the £50 I would save buying the set for something else whilst I'm learning.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

If you buy a few blanks of HSS and a budget bench grinder, you can make any single point cutter you need, and maybe for less money than fancy sets. You wouldn't be wasting your time figuring out tool descriptions either. 4 or 5 blanks will last ages.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I would say the one in your link is a Left Hand, compare with any similar insert holder and they will be L/H

Other suppliers have the names the right way round

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The way to look at the tool is as if you were standing behind the late, all will become clear.

[egaParticipant @ega]

That looks like a useful set but are they "form tools"?

[ZanParticipant @zan]

Jason I agree. It’s a left hand tool because it cuts a shoulder on the left of the workpiece ie working towards the tailstock

 I would never touch one of these formed tools. Why? It will go blunt and need regrinding so what happens to the rake angles and chip breaker groove. Expensive for what they are. As stated, buy a grinder n decent quality HSS banks. It’s even possible to use an angle grinder to form a very crude cutter , I tried it as an experiment.  It looks grim, angles all to pot but cut ok! ( now reground  with my tc grinder)

Edited By Zan on 17/11/2021 14:02:05

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

I've not ordered anything from Chronos for a while – not since they sent me the wrong items for three single-item orders in succession.

Chronos resolved things in the end, but I had to do more work than I think was reasonable to get them to do so.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Zan

These tools are designed to be ground on the end only so the chip breaker groove and height of cutting edge is preserved.

A bit wasteful of HSS as you have to grind back by whatever depth of cut you are using but it does give a reliably sharp tool every time. From a beginners, inexperienced grinder, or similar perspective its a decent way of ensuring you get a reliable sharpness and shape every time.

Neophytes have quite enough to worry about without factoring in problems from poorly shaped or not actually that sharp regrind / touch up of tools.

Its very easy to inadvertently take off the "really sharpness" of a tool edge when doing that last touch up on the grinding wheel or honing to clean up the finish. One reason why I advocate hollow grinding on the periphery of the wheel because it gives a curved face with only top and bottom edges contacting the hone so there is no tendency to roll over the edge when touching up.

Naturally once you know what a good tool cuts like its relatively easy to get your results good too.

Clive

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

At the risk of oversimplifying matters;

If the tool cuts towards the Headstock, it is known as a Right Hand Tool.

If it cuts towards the Tailstock, it is known as a Left Hand Tool.

The disadvantage of tools with chip breaker grooves, is that as soon as the thin edge wears and the tool is reground, it has to be reset to centre height, since removing metal from the cutting face will invade the chip breaker groove, thereby lowering the cutting edge.

Eventually, the chip breaker groove will be so shallow, or non existent that it no longer functions, while the tool needs to be raised to bring it back to centre height.

In my experience, with malleable materials, often the chip breaker groove coils up the swarf that comes off like a tightly coiled spring (and being a larger section and stronger ),is less likely to break into short lengths ) rather than a plain tool where the swarf comes off in a flat strip which can break more easily in to shorter lengths..

IMO, not worth the effort in the long run.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 17/11/2021 14:55:43

[Thomas Gregory 1Participant @thomasgregory1]

Buying some preground tool was a way to remove a variable from my lurning curve as mentioned by others. I do intend to buy some blanks to have a play with but I thought having a preground set (well a RH one first, then a set) would be easiest for a newbie.

It's only £6.50, and I'm sure I'll use it at some point but just a pain it's going to be £7.50 for the "other" tool when it's not really clear to someone buying tools for the first time to use different names to others.

I'm not tight… just don't have a lot of money.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Try car boots and markets for a cheap source of real, but used HSS and other tools on your list.

[John BaronParticipant @johnbaron31275]

Hi Guys,

If you want some very cheap or even free HSS blanks, have a word with your local scrap yard ! I've picked up a lot of HSS and carbide tool steel that way. Some has been very odd sizes, many already being ground to shape just needing touching up.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by Dave Halford on 17/11/2021 15:33:55:

Try car boots and markets for a cheap source of real, but used HSS and other tools on your list.

At a local (to me) car boot I saw 4 pieces of 1/2" HSS all about 2.5" long. I asked the vendor for the price and was shocked when he quoted me £10 each or the 4 for £35. When I told him a 4" length new was only about £7 he became quite abusive. In just walked away.

regards

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You can buy a 8 x 8 x 100 HSS toolbit from Arc Euro for £2.96 each, £7.55 for 3 off, and £14..20 for 6 off, plus shipping

Prices include VAT

At those prices, it is worth learning how to grind a tool, to whatever form you want.

Incidentally, the ones shown in the picture earlier, although described as "Form Tool", are not really.

Something got lost in translation.

A Form tool would leave it's shape (Form ) in the work, in the way in which a screwcutting, radius, chamfer, or a parting tool does.

A knife tool GENERATES a cylindrical surface as a result of the combined rotary motion of the work, and the linear motion of the tool, or a flat surface by the same process when facing.

Turning a convex centre or a.concave, is, again, a generating process.

Round bar starts as a cylinder, but hexagon or square bar does not, before anyone says it!

Howard

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