Resurrecting an old model

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Hi, returning model engineer here. Way back in the 90's I bought a set of 'Lady Stephanie' castings from the old Reeves and, after a couple of years work (and a steep learning curve) I had it completed and running on steam (picture attached). I then stripped it down in order to paint it, at which point I moved house… Having packed it all in various boxes it remained untouched for ten years at the new home, until I moved house again 12 years ago, at which point I unpacked the boxes, did a a bit more painting, and then put it to one side while I sorted out the new house, played with a vintage tractor, learned woodturning etc.

I've now come back to finish Lady S, but have a problem with 'gunge' on all these components that have been sitting on an open shelf for a decade. I have all the machined castings, and any missing other bits I can re-make from bar stock. There's not much rust, but almost everything has a coat of ancient oil and fine sawdust, congealed into a nasty brown mess. Can anyone recommend some kind of cleanser which will shift the muck without damaging the cast-iron, steel or brass, and preferably without removing the paint I've already applied ?

I have various products to hand – Evaporust, Penetrating Oil, Carb & Intake Cleaner, Plus Gas Dismantling Lubricant, White Spirit and Meths. Is there anything on that list that I shouldn't use (the Carb and Intake cleaner might be a bit too harsh for instance) ? And of the safer ones, is there an optimum product for this job. If there's something better that I haven't mentioned, please mention it and I'll see if I can get some.

The next problem I anticipate is taking various sub-assemblies apart, as they are held together with bolts and screws from 2 BA to 14 BA, some of which are bound to be tricky to undo after decades. Is there anything in the list above that would help ? Someone suggested that I apply heat to 'stuck' nuts with a soldering iron, as they're too small for a torch – any comments ?

Be nice to get it finished after 20-odd years.

 

Edited By Bob Unitt 1 on 01/11/2021 11:41:52

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Finishing a Lady stephanie started over 20 years ago – questions

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

I think I would avoid white spirit and meths, perhaps start off with a bowl of warm soapy water and an old toothbrush.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Isopropol Alcohol is probably the gentlest of the cleaning solvents.

I'd avoid meths. The colourant and emetic additives get left behind.

Hot soapy water is frequently surprisingly effective but needs careful scrubbing off in a couple of changes of clean water to be sure that all the residues have gone. Hard to get all rthe nooks and crannies of an assembled model properly dry afterwards. Couple of days in the airing cupboard I think.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 01/11/2021 13:01:07

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Posted by Baz on 01/11/2021 12:19:01:

I think I would avoid white spirit and meths, perhaps start off with a bowl of warm soapy water and an old toothbrush.

If I'd made that model I'd reckon it is worth a NEW toothbrush!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

I use one of the generic citrus degreasers for general cleanup duties – they seem to do the job, plus they smell nicer than some of the alternatives and are safe for disposal. Comes concentrated in 5L containers so I dilute into a spray bottle, squirt on, leave/scrub/rinse/repeat. Using warm water helps too.

[edit] and I try to do it on a warm sunny day so that ferrous parts can dry, if not then have cloths or heat gun ready, or paint straightway to avoid flash rust.

and yes, very nice model, well worth the effort.

Edited By Adrian R2 on 01/11/2021 14:20:00

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Thanks for all the replies folks

Baz – That shifted the top layer, but not the underlying grunge. I've ordered some Isopropyl alcohol, should be here later this week. After 20+ years I'm sure it can wait a few more days

 

 

 

Edited By Bob Unitt 1 on 01/11/2021 14:32:34

[LainchyParticipant @lainchy]

Test IPA on a small area first…. it may soften paint. White spirit is what we use on the big stuff.

Looks great though!

[John Paton 1Participant @johnpaton1]

A delightful model and well worth the effort to bring back into showroom condition – I think I have the original articles on Lady Stephanie – Engineering in Miniature I seem to recall?

I guess we all have our favourite cleaning compounds – in my case what I have 'lying around at the time'!)

I tend to head initially towards WD40 and strips of Sotchbright to clean up such gunge or heating oil , diesel etc for larger components.

Probably best to avoid 'lighter fraction' solvents initially when working on painted parts as it will soften the paint and allow it to be scratched. I would use IPA sparingly just as a final wipe over if needing to degrease it fully (such a prior to painting).

I too find the citrus degreasers remarkably good but won't you end up re-oiling the parts to avoid rust?

Obviously it is not easy to get Scotchbright right into nooks and crannies and I tend to use a fibreglass 'pencil' for such areas. You can get fine ones which fit in the old style clutch grip propelling pencils. A really fine 'doofer' helps pick into the very tightest corners.

I have also used commercial oven cleaner (Sodium Hydroxide I think?) on steel parts but not on painted bits. Not sure how brass gets on with it though, it certainly makes aluminium look strange. MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone?) is another strong degreasing cleaner but to be used with caution. I have used it to decrud model Diesel engines which suffer a hard lacquer from the castor oil, but again it will demolish paint.

Hopefully your gunge will not prove too be so obstinate that it needs highly aggressive chemicals.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

I use orange Swarfega on my hands when they get grimey and greasy. Would it be worth trying some, scrubbed in with the brush of your choice. It's easy on my delicate skin but I wouldn't like to vouch for its reaction with paint.

Neat model, though. Lets have another photo when it has been cleaned up and let us know what worked for you.

John

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Posted by Lainchy on 01/11/2021 16:32:34:

Test IPA on a small area first…. it may soften paint. White spirit is what we use on the big stuff.

I brew my own IPA thanks, Munton's Gold.

I do take your point, but I'm not too worried about the paintwork – I was contemplating stripping and repainting anyway, as my technique has improved somewhat in the intervening years..

I'll be getting some Citrus Degreaser too, as I'll be passing Halford's on Friday (on my way to my booster jab).

.

.

 

Edited By Bob Unitt 1 on 02/11/2021 17:01:15

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Well it all seems to be there, a bit of a surprise after two house-moves . So far the best cleaning regime seems to be IPA and a stiff-bristle toothbrush, plus 400-grit ScotchBrite on the larger pieces. Not sure how to clean 8 & 10 BA nuts though, probably easier just to replace them.

We now come to decisions about painting. I know what colours I want, but I'm unsure about the finish – I started off with gloss, but I've since made a wooden model boat (thames barge) painted with Humbrol 'Satin' finish which I thought looked more realistic. That may simply be because the original was a wooden 100 ft ship rather than a metal 15 ft steam engine, what do you think ?

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I always paint metal in gloss as I have found it much easier to clean. Others may have a different opinion.

I would also like to see more photos of this model please.

Edited By Brian John on 15/11/2021 12:42:07

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

FWIW, my choice would be to use whatever solvent is suitable, and available, in partnership with tooth brushes very fine Scotchbrite and lots of elbow grease on the machined surfaces.

Howard

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Posted by Brian John on 15/11/2021 12:41:35:

I would also like to see more photos of this model please.

Edited By Brian John on 15/11/2021 12:42:07

I'm afraid these are the only other two I still have, the rest being lost in the mists of time (these were taken in 2001)

The castings are a bit rough – this was shortly before the original Reeves crashed, and the quality had been going downhill for a while… I'm tempted to scrap that beam, and build a new one from scratch from bar-stock, but I'll get it  all  finished first.

Edited By Bob Unitt 1 on 16/11/2021 10:19:49

Edited By Bob Unitt 1 on 16/11/2021 10:20:22

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

I seem to have forgotten more than I can remember … I used to pickle silver-soldered brass items with a solution of culinary citric acid dissolved in warm water, and it also cleaned the bare brass up nicely, but I can't remember the strength. Can anyone suggest the appropriate proportion of acid (powder) to water ?

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Incidentally – if anyone is contemplating building a Lady Stephanie of their own, I have a list of all the editions of EIM covering the construction, along with which components are described in in which edition. PM me if you'd like a copy.

(Not sure if it's OK to mention EIM here, my apologies if it isn't.)

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Thanks for the photos. It looks great. I can just imagine it on the coffee table in the living room ; it's a real centre piece !

[Michael BelferParticipant @michaelbelfer47979]

For an ignorant downunder peasant – IPA is?

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Posted by Michael Belfer on 09/12/2021 21:36:42:

For an ignorant downunder peasant – IPA is?

Isopropyl Alcohol; I think its called Rubbing alcohol in the states, as for where you are I can only guess!

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Posted by Michael Belfer on 09/12/2021 21:36:42:

For an ignorant downunder peasant – IPA is?

In this context, it's as Jon Lawes said. In a non-technical context, it's India Pale Ale

[Michael BelferParticipant @michaelbelfer47979]

Whew – the real answer caught me just in time from attacking an old item with Pale Ale, which was the only answer yielded by 'Oogling –

Michael dow- nunda

where Iso-propyl is usually written out in full rather than acronymised – or is it acronymated?

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Posted by Michael Belfer on 09/12/2021 21:54:45:

Whew – the real answer caught me just in time from attacking an old item with Pale Ale, which was the only answer yielded by 'Oogling –

They're both alcohol, it's just that the isopropyl one is a bit stronger…

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Belfer on 09/12/2021 21:54:45:

Whew – the real answer caught me just in time from attacking an old item with Pale Ale, which was the only answer yielded by 'Oogling –

…

Last time I saw India Pale Ale, it was sold in small Brown Bottles. Didn't realise it's still available but it seems young folk like it:

There's a version suitable for Model Engineers:

Tasty IPA Beers shouldn't be confused with Iso-Propyl Alcohol which is an industrial solvent made from Acetone.

Iso-Propyl Alcohol has an unpleasant burning bitter-sweet taste and none of the desirable effects of booze. Instead, produces headaches, depression, dizziness, vomiting, narcosis, coma, and death. Lethal dose, about 100ml. Good xmas present for my mother-in-law, who might drink it because she's a dragon…

Dave

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, removing gunge, model aircraft engines with baked on castrol R was removed back in the day with biological washing powder like magic, larger aluminium motorcycle castings came up like new when heated up in a bucket of water with some rhubarb leaves (Oxalic Acid) the red part left over may be made into a pastry covered pie colloquially known as Hydrochloric Acid Pie for good reason. ( if cookery of any kind is not within your grasp ask your mother or wife for assistance ) Motorcycle Exhaust Pipes & Silencers also respond well, after plugging one end & standing upright, to the boiling washing powder solution, you would not believe the sheer amount of gunge that pours out!

Bob H

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