“restoring” a Colchester student, anything to consider?

[Liam PocknellParticipant @liampocknell69439]

Hello all,
I decided to sideline the restoration of the Drummond i picked up that some of you may have seen due to a bigger offer coming along but i'm not sure if its to much of an undertaking.
Its a great deal, in theory, a Colchester student for £300, looks in an ok condition and was looked after in the past by its previous owner but the current owner was left it by said family member, knows it wasn't used for some years and has no way to test it so being sold if i want it as "non-working/spares and repairs" but really has no idea.
Would this be getting way ahead of myself in terms of restoration projects? Or are they actually rather simple beasts? My most complicated past projects being old British Pillar drills with back gears such as the Kerry Super 8..
Of course, there is a chance i get it home, it creaks to life, i dance with joy and just make it beautiful again with a coat of paint but i can't count on that when considering a 4 hour round trip for a 700kg machine
Thank you in advance for any help

Edited By Liam Pocknell on 25/11/2020 19:27:03

[Liam PocknellParticipant @liampocknell69439]

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If you think a coat of paint will do the trick, then go ahead.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Snap it up. With luck it will be a goodun after a little TLC. At worst you can sell it off as parts and make a few bob if it is a real dog.

regards

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Grabbit!

OK so it's a gamble on the time and effort and cost of collecting it, but if it is a dog it's still worth the money. Doesn't seem much of a risk to me.

Be careful loading it and transporting it. Most of its 700 Kg is in the headstock and bed, the stand isn't (comparatively) very heavy. So the centre of gravy is at least a metre off the floor , so it's top heavy as fun. Go to ridiculous lengths to not let it tilt AT ALL.

Good luck, happy Studenting.

Rgds Simon

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Liam it looks well worth the price also look for any other chucks and face plate and tooling that may belong to it even if you pay a bit more.

David

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

It doesn’t look like it may have died in service and no dismantling has taken place that you can see

as David says get as much extra parts with it

the chuck c spanner for one

it looks an easy restoration

i had an earlier mk1 ( with cast levers on the gearbox) for many years which served me well before i upgraded to a mk1.5

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Actually i think i can see the c spanner in the tray

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Buying second-hand is all about the risk of exchanging good money for a heap of junk. Bargain if the lathe is in anything like reasonable condition, a money-pit if it needs significant work, but scrap value and breaking for spares would reduce the loss if it turned out to be scrap metal.

The external appearance of a lathe doesn't give much away. Only the bed and lead-screw are open to view, and close inspection may be needed to see important issues. A long working life followed by being neglected in a shed can result in poor looks, but leave the machine in good order where it matters. On the other hand, we see quite a few old lathes on ebay that have been tarted up with a strip down and clean, rust removal and polish, body filler and paint job. Done well, these look 'as new', but actually require major 'under the bonnet' remedial work: they could be expensive junk. Don't judge a book by it's cover!

Machines like the Colchester sell remarkably cheaply considering how much they cost new! Unfortunately although the lathe may be cheap spares parts aren't. Beware, it can cost a great deal more to repair a machine tool than it cost to buy it!

Potential expenses:

• Faulty electrics: wiring, capacitors, contactor, switches, terminal box. Earth leaks due to degraded insulation. Possible need uplift to current safety standards.
• Likely to be 3-phase, requiring a VFD or other converter. Some machines are electrically complicated, for example, having a two speed main motor, and a coolant pump, and a work-light in a combination that works well from a 3-phase main, but can't be driven with a simple VFD. Usually motors can be easily converted from star to delta, but not all.
• New motor needed
• Missing Change Gears and other parts
• Replacement belts
• Worn bed requiring a regrind, and compensating adjustment of the saddle and tail-stock
• Worn head-stock bearings, lead-screw, half-nuts, cross-slide screw, gibs
• Worn out clutch
• Mangled gearbox, jammed, stripped cogs etc,
• Misaligned head-stock
• Physical damage, typically due to the machine being dropped or toppled whilst being moved in the past. Cracked cast-iron, sheared-off controls, bent spindles etc.

Few of these are show-stoppers in themselves particularly if doing up old machines is your hobby. But costs add up. Taking a year to bring an old girl back to life when you already have the tools and cash needed is one thing. But many of us have other urgent interests, limited facilities and small budgets – the last thing I need in my workshop is a major restoration project.

I think the best way to identify serious faults is to see and hear the machine cutting metal. If it cuts a straight acceptable finish, and all the controls work, and nothing sounds bad, and there or no electrical tingles, or smoke, then there's a reasonable chance it's a good 'un. Stiff controls, crunching, slipping, jambs, jumping out of gear, hot bearings, failure to face or turn straight, all suggest bad news. But you need to know what to look for: it's much easier to identify actual faults as opposed to maladjustments and operator error when you've used a lathe or mill in anger before.

Considering risk, I like to identify "my appetite for the worst possible outcome" For £300 that Colchester is a pretty safe bet in my book. Apart from lack of space to accommodate the thing I could bear the time, inconvenience and money down the drain if it was a dud. Probably not for someone short on cash and time, who has an immediate project to start.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Liam Pocknell on 25/11/2020 19:26:03:

Would this be getting way ahead of myself in terms of restoration projects? Or are they actually rather simple beasts? My most complicated past projects being old British Pillar drills with back gears such as the Kerry Super 8..

No they are not a simple beast . It's a precision machine tool. Not a beginner project to pull it apart and reassemble it in good working order to the nearest two tenths of a thou.

Clean the rust off it with Scotchbrite, get it running and give it a lick of paint with a brush. (It's an industrial machine not a bloody Rolls Royce Silver Shadow.) Then learn to use it. Once you reach expert level at using it, you might be in a position to start thinking about a full restoration.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Totally agree with Hopper, clean it up, get it going and use it, I had one of these years ago, it was absolutely knackered really, but it could still do good work with care.

Mine had such a noisy headstock I filled it with thicker oil, I passed it on to a friend who is still using it regularly nearly thirty years later, it wasn't and still isn't worth restoring, but still a useful machine, currently turning (!) out parts for a 4" Foster T.E. This one doesn't look too molested, got a useful 4 jaw chuck, I'd definitely go for it. These are tough old things. If it does turn out to be in good condition you can always polish it up later if that's your thing.

Dave

[Clive BarkerParticipant @clivebarker72854]

Hello Liam,

I recently purchased a similar Colchester 1965 except straight bed. I had the option of separating out the major components for transportation which, in my case, was an easier option. I anticipated that it would take a few months to completely strip down, re-paint, and reassemble with an inverter drive. In the end it was much quicker than anticipated and I was able to do some basic fitting to improve some fits and replace one damaged but functioning gear in the leadscrew and feed screw gearbox. Refitting a shear pin and ensuring the saddle interlock mechanism worked again (a missing component apparently caused the damage to the gear). All in all, a very satisfying project.

Inspection of the bed, leadscrew, morse tapers and headstock (by taking the cover off) should tell you quickly whether this is going to be a breakdown for spares or a worthwhile restoration. Seems you cant go wrong for £300 if you have the time and motivation.

Clive.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

I have the straight bed version of that lathe, and I would buy that in a heartbeat!! you could easily double your money or more by selling it for parts, and there is no reason to suspect that it has deteriorated, as it looks very much like the present owner has never used it and the previous one looked after it. The only risk involved here is getting it home in one piece, and not tipping it over as said above. they can be stripped very easily for easy transport and rebuild. Have a look at this thread https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=147356. Always lift a lathe from above! DO NOT put it on a pallet, as pallets are not strong enough to strap something of this weight to, if it wants to fall it will tear the pallet to bits! If you look on Colchester lathe user group https://colchesterlathe.groups.io/g/main you will find a downloadable manual in the files section, and also lots of info on http://www.lathes.co.uk/colchester. You could also give me a shout if you need any info!

Phil

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Buy it, Scotchbrite the rusty bits, stick on ebay With a £900 reserve…….job done

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Years ago I bought a well worn one of these, served me well for a few years. Mine came with chucks and a face plate but no C-spanner for the chucks. I got a couple of spanners flame cut. I still have one, needs finishing so if the OP, or anyone else needs one PM me.

John

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