Replacement Motor Wiring

[Gary LynchParticipant @garylynch39491]

HI Everyone
Seasons Greetings etc.

I am currently fixing my Clarke CL430 after a motor meltdown 🙁
I have bought a new motor from TEC but I need some help with the wiring.

The CL430 has wiring for 4 poles Live, Neutral, and 2 Black ones for the Fwd/Rev switch
Here it is

Here is what I’m seeing in the new motor

Black Wire at Z1 and Red wire to left is the capacitor

Now I’m not going to pretend I know what to do here so that’s what I have come to ask 🙂

What goes where?
Here is the book diagram

Here is what’s under the lid

I’m assuming that the
Live goes to U1
Neutral goes to U2

But I don’t know where the 2 Black wires for Fwd/Rev go 🙁

Thanks
Gary

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

It depends on what the F/R switch does. I suspect it is a double pole changeover switch. In one position it connects one black wire to live and the other to neutral. In the other position it swaps them over so that the first black wire is now connected to neutral and the second to live.

If this is a correct supposition, then (AFTER TAKING OFF THE LINKS) one black wire goes to Z2 and the other to V1. The F/R switch in effect replaces the links shown in the new motor diagram.

If the switch is in one position live is being fed to U2 & Z2 while neutral is connected to V1 & U1 and the motor will run clockwise. In the other position live is being connected U2 & V1 and neutral to U1 & Z2 and the motor will run counter clockwise.

Check very carefully using a meter that my assumptions/suspicions are correct. If not then the original motor is of different design to the new one and you will have to do some work to connect it up to the F/R switch.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

U1 and U2 are the run windings Z1 and Z2 are the start windings. Your motor from what can be seen is a capacitor start, induction run, NOT cap start Cap run. To reverse rotation swap Z1 and Z2 but leave U1 and U2 as was. How this is done will depend on the reversing switch you have. One convention was U1 red, U2 black, Z1 yellow and Z2 blue. Using your meter you should be able to sort it out. Good Luck and Happy Christmas. Noel.

[Peter Cook 6]

On Peter Cook 6 Said:

It depends on what the F/R switch does. I suspect it is a double pole changeover switch. In one position it connects one black wire to live and the other to neutral. In the other position it swaps them over so that the first black wire is now connected to neutral and the second to live.

If this is a correct supposition, then (AFTER TAKING OFF THE LINKS) one black wire goes to Z2 and the other to V1. The F/R switch in effect replaces the links shown in the new motor diagram.

If the switch is in one position live is being fed to U2 & Z2 while neutral is connected to V1 & U1 and the motor will run clockwise. In the other position live is being connected U2 & V1 and neutral to U1 & Z2 and the motor will run counter clockwise.

Check very carefully using a meter that my assumptions/suspicions are correct. If not then the original motor is of different design to the new one and you will have to do some work to connect it up to the F/R switch.

Thank you for responding Peter
The motor does have a capacitor and if i take the links out nothing happens 🙁

 

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

U1 and U2 are the run windings Z1 and Z2 are the start windings. Your motor from what can be seen is a capacitor start, induction run, NOT cap start Cap run. To reverse rotation swap Z1 and Z2 but leave U1 and U2 as was. How this is done will depend on the reversing switch you have. One convention was U1 red, U2 black, Z1 yellow and Z2 blue. Using your meter you should be able to sort it out. Good Luck and Happy Christmas. Noel.

@noelshelley55608
Hi Noel

This is the back of the switch (Old one new one and harness installed :)) Right side of image.

SO my assumption is

Gary 🙂

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

I dont think that looks right, but I am no expert (though I have wired a similar motor from the same supplier in the last week, but not for reversing operation.)

As I understand it, you take both the links out and connect the black wires to Z2 and V1, but as Peter and Noel say, you should use a meter to check that the switch functions as expected.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Your assumption looks badly wrong, and a potential recipe for a big bang.

The switch picture shows exactly what I expected. A cross wired changeover switch. Wiring should be

What do you mean, if you remove the links nothing happens. It won’t unless the two Black wires are connected as shown.

A late. thought. If it doesn’t work when wired like that, check that you have continuity through the F/R switch. In one position one black wire should be connected to live, the other to neutral. In the other position the first black wire should be connected to neutral while the other should be to live. If not you have a failed switch!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I’m a bit fuzzy headed at the moment, so please shout if this is wrong!  Gary – double check it makes sense to you.

Here’s the motor, showings links set for FWD and REV.   Remove links, the switch replaces them.

Here’s the switch, note six wires, the mains pair, and the cross-over connections.

This, I think is the circuit, switch in red, note the cross-over on the diagram matches the wiring on the switch:

So there should be 4 wires from the switch to the motor.   Two take Live and Neutral to U1 and U2 respectively – trace them back carefully!  The other two connect to V1 and Z2.

The switch reverses by connecting either L to V1 and N to Z2, or L to Z2 and N to V1.

Dave

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

FROM THE PICTURE ! The 2 wires that lay crossed at the top are V1 and Z2  the other 2 black wires paired to the coloured wires go to U1 and U2. Try testing with a meter to be sure. Good Luck and a Happy Christmas. Noel.

PS REMOVE THE LINKS ! N

[Gary LynchParticipant @garylynch39491]

OK so

Removed Links
Brown (Live) to U1
Blue (Neutral) to U2

Black wires to Z1 – Z2

Turned on and hey presto works  🙂
F/R switch works too

Now wait for it!
Nothings ever simple right!

BUT
it all runs for about 20 secs and blows the fuse 🙁
Could it be over drawing with the 1 hp motor?

Is it that the Capacitor is not in the circuit (removing the link?)
Does the Red Capacitor wire need to go to U1 (Live)?

Gary

PS thank you soo much for the help so far 🙂
Merry Christmas and New Year 🙂

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

You have taken the cap out of circuit. You say the fuse, what value is it ? 13A ?   Study the picture of the back of a reversing switch that SOD – Dave sent does yours look like that ? Take the wire from Z1 and connect to V1, now the cap is in circuit and try again. Noel.

[Gary LynchParticipant @garylynch39491]

Yes the 13amp just blows after 10-20 secs of running
Do I just put the Link back in between Capacitor  (red Wire and U1?)

Im so sorry guys, I’m really struggling with this 🙁
Gary

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

You have connected the  black wire (That comes from the reversing switch .) to Z 1. That wire should be connected to V1. So you are connecting the strart winding directly to the supply (Via the reversing switch) without having the start capacitor and centrifugal switch is series with it.

You SHOULD NOT HAVE EITHER METAL link fitted.

Les

[Gary LynchParticipant @garylynch39491]

Ok brain fog cleared and I re read the posts.

The weak link in this was me!! 😔

Anyway a huge thank you to everyone who took time to help and reply 😁

It is in and working as it should with fwd/rev switch working .

 

Regards Gary

[Gary Lynch]

On Gary Lynch Said:

…
Do I just put the Link back in between Capacitor  (red Wire and U1?)

No!

Im so sorry guys, I’m really struggling with this 🙁
Gary

EDIT:  I see Les, for whom I have enormous respect, posted whilst I was typing and Gary is up and running.   I’ll leave my post below ‘just in case’.  I’m still fogged about the red wire (capacitor), which I think should go to Live?

 

Yeah, me too a bit and it doesn’t help I’m poorly – my brain keeps skipping off-task as it reacts to discomfort.   Ho hum.

My diagnosis is Gary’s got a partial understanding of the wiring, what’s inside the motor, and how the reversing switch works, but it needs to be right.

For example, the link between U1 and V1 doesn’t connect the capacitor.  The links are provided for applications where the motor only runs one way, but Gary needs both Forward and Reverse.   Thus both links are useless and what they do is replaced by a reversing switch.   We’re all agreed – take the links off!

Given that the capacitor was misunderstood might explain this incorrect wiring, circled in red:

Under no circumstances should two wires be connected to Z1 – the motor diagrams don’t show it.   The grey/black wire is wrong, so unhook it.

Following on from that mistake, and assuming the red and black wires go to the capacitor, then the red wire is wrong too:  it should join the brown wire connected to U1.     Then the unhooked grey/black wire goes to V1.

Like  this:

 

A source of confusion may be that the physical layout of Z2, U2, V2, and U1, V1, Z1 on the motor aren’t necessarily the same as the layout on the reversing switch or on the circuit diagram.   Never assume the physical layout will be consistent : follow the labelling.

This stuff isn’t obvious common sense, and although experience helps, it pays to have a reasonable understanding of how electric motors work, basic electricity, and how circuits are drawn.  No shame if a beginner finds it confusing!  I’ve used a smattering of skills to reverse engineer a circuit and decoded the existing wiring.  Harder to do on the internet than it is in the workshop where I would confirm theory with a multimeter!   As mistakes and misunderstandings are possible I’m only about 90% confident it’s right.   So take care!

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hey Gary, all’s well that ends well. DO NOT throw the links away. Since the terminal block in the motor is A, isolated from earth and B, V2 is unused, put both the links from Z1 to V2, this way they will not be lost, in case they are needed at some time. Also draw a wiring diagram of what you have done on a scrap of paper and place inside the terminal box for future reference. Noel.

[Author]

Posts