Removing Jacobs 36B chuck and arbor

[Sunny SinghParticipant @sunnysingh]

Hi all,

I've got what looks like a Jacobs 36B chuck on an Elliott progress, and I don't know how to get it, and the arbor, off the spindle. I'm a noob, so I don't know what I'm looking at, and where I should be using drifts or wedges. Here are the images:

Here's a shot through the chuck, with the jaws open. There's no screw inside, and you can see right through to the oval-shaped hole in the above image:

So what tools do I need, and how do I dismantle this stuff!

Cheers!

[Sunny SinghParticipant @sunnysingh]

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

If there are any threads showing below the knurled ring perhaps that will screw down and push the chuck off the spindle ?

As the spindle accepts MT tang perhaps the drill has a short MT fitted ?
Try wedges to force the taper out of the spindle.

Emgee

i

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

I thought that the B in 36B indicated a thread mount, but I'm not certain. If so, lock the spindle by means of the slots and unscrew, r/h thread. Might be tight though!

A steel rod in one of the key holes and a tap with a mallet might help, within reason.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 21/03/2018 19:45:28

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

You are most likely correct Clive, 3/4×16 mount ?

Emgee

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

This thread suggests that the Progess has both an internal 1mt and an external Jacob's 6 taper. The OP has only said that it looks like a 36B, which seems to be a threaded chuck, and seems unlikely on this drill. Jacob's chucks usually say what taper they are on the chuck so a closer look under the rust my reveal the truth. If it is a taper fitting then a pair of wedges between the knurled ring and the top of the chuck should get it off.

HTH,

Rod

[Sunny SinghParticipant @sunnysingh]

Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 21/03/2018 19:43:10:

I thought that the B in 36B indicated a thread mount, but I'm not certain. If so, lock the spindle by means of the slots and unscrew, r/h thread. Might be tight though!

A steel rod in one of the key holes and a tap with a mallet might help, within reason.

Hi Clive, yes, I've also read that the 'B' means tapered threaded

I'll stick a rod/screwdriver in the key hole to stop the spindle turning, and lock an allen key into the chuck, and hit the end of the allen key with a mallet to hopefully get the chuck turning….

Edited By Sunny Singh on 21/03/2018 20:27:19

[Sunny SinghParticipant @sunnysingh]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 21/03/2018 20:22:27:

This thread suggests that the Progess has both an internal 1mt and an external Jacob's 6 taper. The OP has only said that it looks like a 36B, which seems to be a threaded chuck, and seems unlikely on this drill. Jacob's chucks usually say what taper they are on the chuck so a closer look under the rust my reveal the truth. If it is a taper fitting then a pair of wedges between the knurled ring and the top of the chuck should get it off.

HTH,

Rod

Hi Rod, I think that's an older Elliot. Mine might be a Mk 2, and according to

http://www.lathes.co.uk/progress-drills/page5.html

It says that on Mk 2 versions, "In addition to the usual pair of deep-groove ball raves, the 4-inch travel spindle was equipped with a separate thrust race and – possibly uniquely – its nose formed with both a Jacobs No. 6 taper to mount a drill chuck and, in a short extension, a No. 1 Morse taper with a knock-out slot. However, on later 8-slot table machines this unusual arrangement was dropped and just the Jacobs taper provided"

Does that make sense with what we see in the picture?

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Sunny,

Your spindle certainly looks like it has a 1MT. That slot is used to provide access for a wedge shaped bar to knock a Morse taper fitted drill or chuck out. The external 6 JT would seem therefore to fit with the older style spindle. Screwed on chucks are not usually as accurate as taper fitted ones and are generally only used on portable power tools.

Rod

[Sunny SinghParticipant @sunnysingh]

Hi Rod,

Here's a close-up of the chuck, which has some numbers you can make out:

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

A hook spanner engaging the holes in the chuck body would provide more torque than a rod in the hole. Try the rod first. If it bends try a hook spanner.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

No doubt about that chuck. I hope it isn't some bodge by a previous owner. Good luck.

Rod

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Have you tried giving it a spray of penetrating fluid then leaving that to soak into the thread/taper areas for a few days before trying to shift the chuck?

My personal choice used to be “Plus Gas Formula A” (other products are available) for something generally well rusted.

[Sunny SinghParticipant @sunnysingh]

Posted by V8Eng on 21/03/2018 22:39:25:

Have you tried giving it a spray of penetrating fluid then leaving that to soak into the thread/taper areas for a few days before trying to shift the chuck?

My personal choice used to be “Plus Gas Formula A” (other products are available) for something generally well rusted.

I think that's exactly what I'll do! I don't think the drill's been used for years – it took a lot of force just to open the chuck's jaws, and even then everything was really stiff.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 21/03/2018 22:18:51:

No doubt about that chuck. I hope it isn't some bodge by a previous owner. Good luck.

Rod

.

+1

MichaelG.

.

**LINK**

https://www.solenttools.co.uk/jacobs-plain-bearing-industrial-chucks/jacobs-plain-bearing-industrial-chuck-36b-58-2130326-400394-.php

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Do not forget to cover anything up where you do not want the fluid to get, hope I’m not being over simplistic but the stuff is designed to get into everywhere!

I should perhaps of said a squirt or brush on rather than a spray as well.

Good luck with it all.

Edited By V8Eng on 21/03/2018 23:14:40

[Sunny SinghParticipant @sunnysingh]

Posted by V8Eng on 21/03/2018 22:51:59:

Do not forget to cover anything up where you do not want the fluid to get, hope I’m not being over simplistic but the stuff is designed to get into everywhere!

I should perhaps of said a squirt or brush on rather than a spray as well.

Good luck with it all.

Cheers. I've got a can of WD40 fast release that I'll try before trying anything else. Will look into non spray stuff if it comes to that.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Looking at the knurled ring, it looks like someone has had a go with a cold chisel in the past !

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Sunny,

My Progress drill has a similar chuck release to this one of yours with a knurled ring above the chuck to push the chuck off a Jacobs taper. I don't have the slot on mine

It will help you to get a slim wire brush into the space below the ring and scrub out the accumulated debris in the thread , it is quite fine from memory. Then get the ring mobile on the thread using easing oil or WD40. It could well be stiff but work it about until it runs more freely on the thread.

Once you have done that get some heat on the chuck, hot air gun will do but a flame would be quicker and with the drill shaft locked against rotation [screwdriver or bar through the slot] use a pair of good grips on the knurled ring to provide some force behind the chuck to break the taper grip. Tapping on the back of the chuck from several directions with a nylon hammer may help too

Be ready to catch the chuck in a padded box as it drops off. Persevere, it WILL come off!

Regards

Brian

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Sunny,

My Progress drill has a similar chuck release to this one of yours with a knurled ring above the chuck to push the chuck off a Jacobs taper. I don't have the slot on mine

It will help you to get a slim wire brush into the space below the ring and scrub out the accumulated debris in the thread , it is quite fine from memory. Then get the ring mobile on the thread using easing oil or WD40. It could well be stiff but work it about until it runs more freely on the thread.

Once you have done that get some heat on the chuck, hot air gun will do but a flame would be quicker and with the drill shaft locked against rotation [screwdriver or bar through the slot] use a pair of good grips on the knurled ring to provide some force behind the chuck to break the taper grip. Tapping on the back of the chuck from several directions with a nylon hammer may help too

Be ready to catch the chuck in a padded box as it drops off. Persevere, it WILL come off!

Regards

Brian

Sorry, repeated posting

 

Edited By Brian Wood on 22/03/2018 09:38:47

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Sunny, my thoughts are the slot is far too close to the end of the spindle for it to be an ejector slot for a wedge but look at the bottom of the slot and see if there is a hole, Also note that the knurled ring has flats for a spanner? this would suggest as already said that it is to be used as an ejector for the chuck and the slot is to lock the spindle.

I think Brian is on the right track — I don't think it will be threaded onto the spindle but ????

Cheers John — be interesting to know the outcome

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

JohnF,

I thought it had a visible spanner flat on it too, but with a tight situation as this is likely to be, I have found from hard earned experience that flats round over very easily.. Sunny did post a picture looking up through the chuck to show that the spindle is hollow up to the cross slot, so an ejector wedge will be a waste of time.

Far better to get a good grip from the start on the knurled ring with mole grips if they can expand to contain it or a good pair of plumbers slip joint wrenches

The heating will help a lot, it doesn't have to be fierce, enough to get some expansion in the Jacob socket at the back of the chuck

Regards

Brian

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

The last photo of the chuck shows under 36B, Thread 5/8 x16 So presumably it is screwed onto the spindle

Roy

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Roy,

I had missed that detail, in which case this looks now like some combination fitting with a Morse taper to the ejector slot and in the case of this chuck without that fitting, perhaps screwed onto the nose of the spindle.

If that is the case then Sunny has an alternative way of removing it by gripping a good sized hexagon bar in the chuck jaws, 'oiling' the top of the chuck with penetrating oil, then persuading the chuck to unscrew with a wrench on the hexagon against a flat bar through the ejector slot

Again I think heat will be beneficial in getting things to move; it might take some shifting.

Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 22/03/2018 14:29:41

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Please let us know if you succeed in releasing it.

David

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