Removal of Drilling Chuck from Mill/Drill Head

[Noel Paris, MALTAParticipant @noelparismalta]

Hi to all. I am new to this Forum and following a good number of years of 'absence' am returning back to my school times when I learned basics of lathe turning and milling.

I have recently purchased a new Clark CMD300 Milling / Drilling Machine and cannot find the correct way of removing the Drilling Chuck from the Mill/Drill Head to replace it with the Mill Chuck.

Would appreciate if one can assist with this matter and if possible provide copy instructions.

Thanks and Best regards

Noel

[Noel Paris, MALTAParticipant @noelparismalta]

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Assuming that the drill chuck fits into a taper in the milling spindle and is held in place by a drawbar, the usual procedure would be to loosen the drawbar and give the top of it a tap or two with a brass hammer to free off the taper. If no brass hammer, interpose a bit of brass or ally so the drawbar isn't damaged.

It shouldn't have been tightened up so hard that heavy blows which might cause damage are needed. If light taps won't do the trick, some sort of C shaped wedge between the chuck body and spindle is called for. It is better to use two wedges opposed to one another and squeezed together with a clamp, so pressure is exerted by parallel surfaces.

Andy

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The drill chuck would not be retained by a draw bar, removal is by a drift (a tapered bit of steel), it fits in the slot in the side of the mandrel a few inches up from the bottom. They only cost a couple of pounds, or you can make one, I'd have thought you would have been supplied with one among the tools for your machine. Maybe not, if you got as much as I did with my milling machine, the Company I got it from was going broke, so to get extra cash they were selling all the bits separately. Ian S C

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Noel,

I hope I am able to communicate this simply:

1. At the top of the spindle is a plastic cap. Hit it on the side with the palm of your hand, which will dislodge it from its location. Once dislodged, take it off. This will expose the drawbar which goes through the spindle, to hold the MT3 Drill chuck arbor in place.

2. Turn the spindle around with your hand until you see a partly drilled hole in the side. The hole diameter will be about 6mm. In your tool kit, find the peg which fits this hole. The peg will look similar to one of the quill/head feed arms. if you cant find it, or if it is not supplied for your mill, use a C Spanner.

3. Put the peg/C Spanner into the hole and hold it in position with your left/right hand. take a spanner with your free hand and locate it on to the drawbar at the top. Holding the spindle firmly in place with one hand, proceed to un-screw the drawbar using the spanner, in an anti-clockwise direction. This could be a little tight. Unscrew by two to three full turns only, making sure that the drawbar has not completely been removed from the arbor it is holding.

4. Put the peg/C spanner to one side along with the spanner you used for un-screwing the drawbar. Take a rubber mallet and give a sharp hit to the top of the drawbar – no light several gentle blows – dont be afraid. Before you do this, make sure you put something soft on the table, to protect it, in case the drill chuck and arbor fall onto it, during this process.

The sharp blow will release the friction fit between the Morse male taper of the arbor and female taper of the spindle. You can then proceed to unscrew the drawbar and remove the arbor from the spindle.

When you put in the mill chuck, make sure that the mating tapers are free of oil and dirt. Then gently push the mill chuck arbor into the spindle and just apply hand pressure to mate the Morse taper. Re-put in the drawbar, screw onto the arbor, and just lightly tighten the fit. Do not over tighten.

Ketan at ARC

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Ian, I think you may be thinking of a different machine. This manual for the CMD300 shows a "drawbolt for taper shank" as item 10 on page 7.

The manual also shows that there is some sort of cover which must be removed to gain access to the top of the drawbar.

Andy

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Noel,

Andy has given a good link.

The peg I was referring to is item 9 – tommy bar shown on page 7 of that manual.

The key difference is the location of the hole where this peg/tommy bar is to be located, as seen on their manuals page 8 and 10. This location is different to the ones to be found on the SX2P.

Ketan at ARC.

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

This may not help the OP, but anyone who is making a spindle for MT tooling held by drawbar may find it useful. The Emco FB2 has a very neat system for removing taper tooling. The top of the spindle has an external thread; on this can be fitted a screwed cap with a hole in the top and two spanner flats on its side. The drawbar used is in effect a very long socket head cap screw. To remove taper tool, slacken off the drawbar slightly, screw the cap over the top of the drawbar head, insert Allen key into the drawbar, place spanner on flats on side of cap. Push Allen key anticlockwise (from above) and spanner clockwise. This forces taper tool out of socket with no risk from impact. The only risk is to your knuckles if you've overtightened the drawbar, when the thing releases with a jerk. Takes less time to do than to describe.

Obviously doesn't work for drill chucks with no drawbar thread, but these should not be held as tightly in the first place.

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 28/01/2013 12:58:33

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

When you get it out and put the mill chuck in make sure it is warm relative to the mill spindle. As with lathe chucks binding the problem can sometimes be caused by thermal expansion (reverse for lather chuck obviously.

Andy's first post made a good point, there should be access for the taper in the side fo the quill – must check mine sometime.

If you do get to the point of having to whollop the drawbar identify the bottom of the spindle (not the quill it is running in) and use some bits of metal, spanner etc to support it down to the table so the force of the blows is not on the bearings.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Noel

Welcome to this forum A picture might help us see your problem ie slot for drift or the top to see draw bar
Nobby

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

I have one of these (now sitting in a distant corner of my workshop). There is a hole in the spindle (shiny bit sticking out/under the head which rotates). Its about 8mm from memory. You need to put a piece of bar into the hole to hold the spindle. Then theres a draw bar at the very top – this takes an 8mm open ended spanner. Hold the bar/spindle and undo the draw bar a few turns – then hit it with a soft hammer – hit it downwards. Now for whatever reason this can be a pig to get loose, on mine atleast. I invariably had to give it a good sharp hit with a steel hammer. This is to be avoided but sometimes is all that will free it – and no, I didnt over tighten mine either. When you see/feel it let go you just unwind the draw bar and the chuck will fall out – catch it! There is no access for a drift as this chuck uses the m10 drawbar.

[Noel Paris, MALTAParticipant @noelparismalta]

Many thanks to all for your kind, prompt feedback, and also for the copy manual from Andy. I think I can resolve the issue with the information provided. Will check all this out sometime in the next two weeks as I will be away from my workshop and will let you know of outcome. If not successful I will revert with a picture as suggested by Nobby.

Thanks again for all your help.

Best regards

Noel

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

David,

I made just such a release system for my X2 – I'm sure it could be copied for the SX2

Neil

[Noel Paris, MALTAParticipant @noelparismalta]

Dear All,

Pleased to advise you that this evening's attempts to remove the drill chuck and replace it with the mill chuck have been successful. I thank you all for your assistance. I must admit that the step-by-step instructions provided by Ketan where most helpful so a big thank goes to Ketan. This sure is a forum from which we stand to learn from each others experiences.

Best regards

Noel

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Ketan, I assumed(shouldn't) that it was a normal (?) dril chuck with a morse arbor with a tang on the top, and a Jacobs taper into the chuck. My mill has a spring loaded pin at the top of the spindle, to hold the spindle when undoing the draw bar, can't lose the pin. Ian S C

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Noel: glad you got it sorted.

Ian: In principal, your understanding is correct, when such products are supplied for use with pillar drills. Generally, when supplied with drill/mills, they are supplied with drawbar based fitting for the morse arbors, with Jacobs JT, or B taper into the chuck.

The spring loaded pin is a good idea, and I have seen similar used in mods made on some mills by people on some forums. One just has to remember to 'unlock' the pin before re-use I suppose. I guess that it would be less of a problem on belt drive, and more of an issue with gear drive if you forgot to un-lock and start the spindle? ….would love to know if anyone has experience of this?

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Ian: In your pin arrangement, do you just hold the pin in to lock the spindle while you apply the spanner to the drawbar and then does it just eject back, or, do you have to lock it into place and then un-lock. This time I was assuming (shouldn't) that it had to be locked/unlocked.

Ketan at ARC.

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Just a word of caution: if you put an MT shank with female screw thread for drabar into a socket which relies on a drift to remove it — there isn't anything tfor the drift to push on. I got caught that way the first time I put my Arrand 2 MT test bar into a 2-3 MT adapter, had the devil's own job to get it out.

You can easily solve this – ARC sell natty little screw-in tangs to suit most common drawbar threads for a quid or so each, just the job as long as you remember to use them.

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 01/02/2013 15:51:17

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Ketan

I canfirm that if you leave the (loose) pin in place on an X2 the cutout pops immediately, at least it did the couple of times I did it. Perhaps I got lucky.

Now with my belt drive mod, my thought is to make a sprung 'hook' that swivels into the hole, with geometry that means it can't stay in unless held there.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Thats a good idea Neil, the pin on mine is spring loaded, but it also has a bayonet fitting, so that given 1/4 of a turn, it stays there, if you start the mill with it locked, the belts really squeal. If you forget the spanner used to undo the draw bar, well I wear a hat in the workshop, I did it once, and it missed me.

Ian S C

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

> If you forget the spanner used to undo the draw bar, well I wear a hat in the workshop, I did it once, and it missed me.

Like starting the lathe with a key in the chuck. You only do it once!

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I have moved the two recent posts to the similar thread running at the moment to save duplicating answers.

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