Registering a Dumper for a Q Plate

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Good Afternoon, and I start this thread in recognition that it would be wrong to hijack a related one about towing a model steam lorry on an A frame. But the comments about IVA etc interest me for reasons I will try and relate below.

I have a small (1 tonne) 6 x 6 Yanmar Dumper. If you are interested video of the machine is here

I have it insured for third party risks with NFU, who seem to be happy that the serial number is sufficient identification, but (for reasons relating to some stroppy and litigious neighbours) I would prefer it to carry a "proper" registration number. I have contacted Yanmar UK for help with the date of manufacture but they declined to play.

It still ought to be possible to obtain a "Q" plate reg' number I can display. My local police connections suggested it needs to go through "Special Vehicle Assessment" which is a quite stringent process relating to approval of kit cars etc. I would be embarrassed to turn up at my local VOSA test station with my grubby dumper on a trailer.

So what is this exemption from something called IVA on the basis that its top speed flat out is about 6 mph? Is there a simple path to a number plate I can display and make it look legal?

It's illogical that I feel less necessity to go through the same process for my dumper's BFF, Little Takeuchi Digger. Top speed about 1 mph. The only rationale I can find is that the dumper's raison d'etre is to move stuff – which means using it on (some extremely minor) public roads.

Any advice would, as ever, be very welcome.

Regards as always Simon

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Advice n the bureaucracy of making a vehicle registration

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Easy one.

see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

Exemptions from vehicle approval

You do not need vehicle approval for:

SNIP

• tracked vehicles, for example a vehicle that runs on tracks rather than wheels
• vehicles designed and constructed for use on construction sites, quarries, ports and airports

These should cover both your vehicles. Been there, done that for aircraft ground equipment.

Robert G8RPI

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 18/09/2022 13:10:14

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

I wouldn't be offended if you hi jacked the thread, but for miniature steamers this is a good guide:

https://www.legacyvehicles.co.uk/post/how-to-guide-road-registration

I see your way ahead as identical. The 15 mph exemption (25 kph actually) is in the C & U regs particularly for things like plant and road rollers where the full IVA thing for kit cars etc would be plain silly.

As a matter of law, absence of road registration would not be grounds for litigation unless they can prove some financial loss because of it. You might have tough time with PC Plod, however.

Martin

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 18/09/2022 13:09:44:

Easy one.

see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

Exemptions from vehicle approval

You do not need vehicle approval for:

SNIP

• tracked vehicles, for example a vehicle that runs on tracks rather than wheels
• vehicles designed and constructed for use on construction sites, quarries, ports and airports

These should cover both your vehicles. Been there, done that for aircraft ground equipment.

Robert G8RPI

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 18/09/2022 13:10:14

Umm, shooting from the hip, I think driving a vehicle on a public road requires it to be taxed, which means it must also be registered. Could be wrong. Is it legal to drive home in one of those things that tows airliners?

Round here the police sometimes set up checkpoints to stop farm vehicles on back-roads. Presumably looking for untaxed, uninsured, unlicensed and no MOT. Last time I passed one the police were interviewing the driver of a large lorry and trailer fully loaded with hay. Might have been as young as 12. An unhappy man who I took to be his dad was waiting his turn: he was driving similar with no number plates. I'm mildly sympathetic to the farmers; I suspect they're moving stuff to a neighbouring farm and are only briefly on a back-road, once in a blue moon.

Dave

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Chap I knew had a vintage fire engine. He was pulled up by the constabulary and asked to produce documents. It took a while to convince Mr Plod that fire engines don't need an Mot, and he was asked to demonstrate that it would still squirt water. He managed to 'accidentally' drench several of them in the process

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/09/2022 14:40:00:

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 18/09/2022 13:09:44:

Easy one.

see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

Exemptions from vehicle approval

You do not need vehicle approval for:

SNIP

• tracked vehicles, for example a vehicle that runs on tracks rather than wheels
• vehicles designed and constructed for use on construction sites, quarries, ports and airports

These should cover both your vehicles. Been there, done that for aircraft ground equipment.

Robert G8RPI

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 18/09/2022 13:10:14

Umm, shooting from the hip, I think driving a vehicle on a public road requires it to be taxed, which means it must also be registered. Could be wrong. Is it legal to drive home in one of those things that tows airliners?

Round here the police sometimes set up checkpoints to stop farm vehicles on back-roads. Presumably looking for untaxed, uninsured, unlicensed and no MOT. Last time I passed one the police were interviewing the driver of a large lorry and trailer fully loaded with hay. Might have been as young as 12. An unhappy man who I took to be his dad was waiting his turn: he was driving similar with no number plates. I'm mildly sympathetic to the farmers; I suspect they're moving stuff to a neighbouring farm and are only briefly on a back-road, once in a blue moon.

Dave

Dave I think you need to read a bit more carefully.

The OP want's to register the vehicle. To do that he needs proof manufacturing date which he can't get, or a Q plate. For a car on Q plate you need a individual vehicle approval "IVA" inspection. His dumper won't pass that test.
The link I provided shows that according to the DOT his vehicle does not need an IVA. He can register it on a Q plate with no other documentation.

Robert G8RPI

[Anonymous]

Posted by duncan webster on 18/09/2022 15:13:50:

Chap I knew had a vintage fire engine. He was pulled up by the constabulary and asked to produce documents. It took a while to convince Mr Plod that fire engines don't need an Mot, and he was asked to demonstrate that it would still squirt water. He managed to 'accidentally' drench several of them in the process

That's an "urban myth" type story. Emergency service vehicles don't need MOTs if they are actually used by a recognised authority as they are assumed to be correctly checked and serviced etc. In reality a lot still have their vehicles MOT'd as a further check, taken many a Police car for one.

But a private owner of such a "retired" emergency service vehicle needs an MOT for one, hose working or not unless it's over 40yrs old and therefore exempt from an MOT which it would have been if truly vintage.

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

My thanks to Robert, who as always has pointed to the evidence satisfying my initial query. I had muddled the speed constraint with the criterion of being equipment designed for use in construction, but he has put me right. The chance observation that my digger (which is also insured for the minimum requirements for use on a public road) is also exempt from vehicle approval on the basis that it is a tracked vehicle is a delightful bonus. Having browsed Martin's links (and a few other worm holes) I now think I see my way through the bureaucracy. Thank you both.

SOD's observations about driving on a public road are useful, in that to drive on a public road the vehicle must be roadworthy, it must be insured (for the use to which it is being put), and the appropriate tax must have been paid. So my digger is OK to drive on the road as I have third party insurance meeting the needs of the relevant Road Traffic Act, but I must not dig holes while so doing as I have no public liability insurance (I was quoted £2000 a year last time I wanted to dig the footings for a garden wall).

The tax class which applies in these instances is such that the tax is zero (though neither is exempt from the requirement of being taxed). Whether the insurance is invalidated by virtue of the vehicle not displaying a registration number is debatable; of course I was endeavouring to close this element of the debate down. This begs the question of what is a registration number, if the vehicle is uniquely identifiable then I would contend that the law is satisfied. My insurer, by virtue of being happy to issue a Certificate of Insurance showing the equipment serial numbers seems to be OK with the issues arising from the vehicle not displaying a "normal" number plate. If they're happy I'm happy. However I still have rows with my neighbour who is convinced he knows better.

There is also the potential for confusion over what rules apply in the special case of construction machinery being used within the confines of work controlled under the CDM regulations; this does not apply in my case so the point is moot.

As for driving an aircraft tug on the public highway, good luck with getting that insured! My suggestion is that such a vehicle is not roadworthy for at least two reasons I can see immediately, being excess axle loading and out of gauge wheelbase.

The knotty question of young persons driving agricultural machinery is another can o' worms.

Rgds Simon

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

Register it as a Special Vehicle, you will be issued with a V5 and a number plate. Various dumpers are registered for road use – witness construction sites.

Agricultural Vehicles and Special Vehicles, young drivers age 16. They must have a provisional licence and are only permitted to drive to and from the test site on 'L' ('D' in Wales) Plates. If the vehicle is fitted with a pasenger seat they must be accompanied by a qualified driver If sucesful they may drive agricultural/special vehicles on the road.

Robert Butler

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Simon Williams 3 on 18/09/2022 16:29:32:

As for driving an aircraft tug on the public highway, good luck with getting that insured! My suggestion is that such a vehicle is not roadworthy for at least two reasons I can see immediately, being excess axle loading and out of gauge wheelbase.

Yabbut, when you've got a fully loaded Harrier or Tornado hanging off the back of it, who'se going to argue.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Bezzer on 18/09/2022 16:17:03:

Posted by duncan webster on 18/09/2022 15:13:50:

Chap I knew had a vintage fire engine. He was pulled up by the constabulary and asked to produce documents. It took a while to convince Mr Plod that fire engines don't need an Mot, and he was asked to demonstrate that it would still squirt water. He managed to 'accidentally' drench several of them in the process

That's an "urban myth" type story. Emergency service vehicles don't need MOTs if they are actually used by a recognised authority as they are assumed to be correctly checked and serviced etc. In reality a lot still have their vehicles MOT'd as a further check, taken many a Police car for one.

But a private owner of such a "retired" emergency service vehicle needs an MOT for one, hose working or not unless it's over 40yrs old and therefore exempt from an MOT which it would have been if truly vintage.

 

Bezzer is correct, so either the chap who narrated the story, who actually owned the fire engine, was telling fairy stories, or the law has changed, or he managed to con the police.

Edited By duncan webster on 19/09/2022 14:37:31

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

ALL vehicles driven on the highway MUST be registered ! As a special vehicle vehicle, you fill in the form, giving various details, engines, wheel plan, seats, Etc.Date of manufacture if known, Depending on the vehicle a covering letter pointing out important facts eg why certain questions can not be answered. Case in point a US army LARC XV(15) a large amphibian, 45Ft long 14.5Ft wide, 22 tonnes I had to deal with the registration of 2 of them. No MOT, but must be road worthy, No IVA. Noel.

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