Recommend me a first engine

[Phil CatchesidesParticipant @philcatchesides15448]

[Phil CatchesidesParticipant @philcatchesides15448]

I am a reasonably experienced engine builder (locos and stationary steam) and fancy doing an I/C next, probably aero engine style. Any thoughts and where do I get plans? Thanks, Phil

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

My first i.c. engine was a Matador, a 10cc 4-stroke glow: Plans for sale here. Has the advantage of being made from bar stock and is a very usable engine.

HTH,

Rod

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Simplex petrol locomotives circa 1910-20? Interesting looking things.

Michael W

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Or you could try Alex Whittaker's Firefly,2-stroke Glow. Plans from Myhobbystore or possibly downloaded from the net. How to build one here. Also a barstock engine.

 

Edited By JasonB on 02/10/2016 20:38:35

[dean clarke 2Participant @deanclarke2]

You could try one of these designs, humbug, boll aero or the mills 1.3cc, they are all bar stock simple single cylinder diesel aero engines very usable and I have a copy of all the drawings if you want to use them.

cheers

Dean

[JAParticipant @ja]

There are kits of castings and drawing available from a number of sources but from my experience the aluminium used for the castings from one source to particularly horrible. Because of this I would suggest an engine that only uses bar stock. After that you can work out how to machine sticky horrible cast aluminium (if you live long enough).

JA

[Phil CatchesidesParticipant @philcatchesides15448]

Thanks all, some good leads and will go for bar stock design

[Bob RodgersonParticipant @bobrodgerson97362]

Phil,

just because you haven't built an aero engine doesn't mean that you need to restrict yourself to a simple design. If you have built a locomotive then your skills are good enough for any IC aero engine.

Castings can sometimes be poor but I have found that it is possible you build most engines without reverting to castings. Aluminium alloy stock can easily be shaped using the mill augmented with hand files/Dremel etc to reproduce look alike castings. A quick blast with some abrasive medium has them looking like the real thing after you have finished with the files.

I have made full size motorcycle crank cases this way. If you look at some of my albums I think there is an example of a Humber OHC engine crank case that I made.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Bob Rodgerson on 04/10/2016 12:14:32:

Phil,

just because you haven't built an aero engine doesn't mean that you need to restrict yourself to a simple design. If you have built a locomotive then your skills are good enough for any IC aero engine.

Agreed. The only additional technique you will need is lapping/honing for the cylinder(s).

Rod

[Phil CatchesidesParticipant @philcatchesides15448]

I got the plans for Matador and it looks about right for difficulty – some parts where I think how the heck do I make that. Is there any problem getting the little bearings ? What is meant by lapping and honing as mentioned in 1 post ? I haven't done that with steam – I use 'O' rings. Regards, Phil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Look back at the link I posted about making the Firefly, lapping is covered there. Basically you need very close fits as there are no rings so the cylinder is lapped with finer and finer grades of Silicon Carbide and then the piston lapped into the cylinder with finer still SiC

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Phil,

You shouldn'the have any problems getting the bearings. I got the helical gears from HPC **LINK**

The Matador has a sprung piston ring so the piston fit is not so critical as Jason'so example and a brake cylinder hone will give an adequate surface finish.

Rod

[steve de24Participant @stevede2433577]

dean Clarke 2 wrote "You could try ………. the Mills 1.3"

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a very long time. Over 50 years ago I bought (for a very small sum) a clapped out Mills , my very first engine. It still started and ran ok if I fitted a large prop but was very down on power. With it I learnt to fly control line sedately until I could afford something better. It ended its days when fitted to an equally cheap, second-hand, much repaired and very over-weight Slicker free flight plane. Who would have thought that this model, with barely enough power to keep it aloft, would catch a thermal and disappear forever. Happy days. I didn't realise it was a bar stock engine.

Steve

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by steve de24 on 23/10/2016 18:14:02:

I didn't realise it was a bar stock engine.

The Mills engine was re-imagined by Ron Chernich as a bar stock engine. He published his drawings in Model Engine Builder.

Cheers,

Rod

[steve de24Participant @stevede2433577]

Rod, thanks for the info on where to get the Mills plans.

Steve

[dean clarke 2Participant @deanclarke2]

Actually the very first mills 1.3 (mk1 series 1) was a billet engine, then they went to cast crankcases, I have a copy of the drawings for anyone who wants them just pm me.

Cheers

Dean

[Phil CatchesidesParticipant @philcatchesides15448]

Problem, Muffetts no longer do the specified gears and don't know of anyone who does – any ideas?? Phil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What spec are teh gears assume for the matador?

HPC probably have them but if you can post DP and number of teeth that would help

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

48 DP 10 & 20 T crossed helicals

Here's the HPC page **LINK**

Rod

[Phil CatchesidesParticipant @philcatchesides15448]

HPC looks good, will hit the magic tellingbone tomorrow. Now for the bearings. Was thinking of getting something similar second hand off ebay to get a feel for these things, my level of ignorance is profound – which way round do they run (the prop will tell me, must get one), what oil, what fuel ? Is there a model aero engine for dummies book?

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

All the bearings are available from ARC **LINK**

The front bearing needs to be shielded, ZZ in ARC terminology. They are pretty cheap, not worth looking for S/H IMHO

Rotation is anti-clockwise looking at the engine through the prop. Fuel will be a pre-mixed Methanol/ 10% Castor oil. Malcolm Stride's" Miniature Internal Combustion Engines" will tell you all you need to know.

Have fun

Rod

[Roy VaughnParticipant @royvaughn26060]

Posted by Phil Catchesides on 01/11/2016 18:35:00:

Is there a model aero engine for dummies book?

Yes, the Model Aero Engine Encyclopedia by Ron Moulton. Out of print but available secondhand (at a price). There is much information on construction on the late Ron Chernich's web site:

http://modelenginenews.org/index.html

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

Does it HAVE to be an aero engine.?

As there are loads of really good 'bar stock' designs for engines that are not.

I personally find that building slightly larger is considerably easier. Parts are able to be held easier as they are larger and the margin for any errors is also increased. Simpler to get running and IMHO larger looks better on display.

But you may have a very valid reason to want to build an aero engine though.

Nick

[Phil CatchesidesParticipant @philcatchesides15448]

Just fancy doing something completely different, have decided on 6060 matador and sitting in the lounge researching bits. Always worked in aerospace so that could be why. I would love to have the Bently but too hard and too long a project for me

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