Randa lathe missing back gear

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

Hi

I have recently purchased what I believe to be a Randa lathe all though it has no badge. I am a beginner at learning.

I was hoping maybe some one here has a similar lathe who can help me with either being able to find the missing back gear or the measurements for this missing part so I can possibly create the missing part.

Searched on Google but can't find specs only info on lathes site.

I will upload photos

Kind regards

Reggie

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Welcome, Reggie, I have looked at the Randa lathes on the "lathes" website, not all of them have backgear, although if yours has parts missing, at least the large gear next to the chuck would be present, as it is harder to remove. Finding detailed specs on an old machine like this could be very hard.

Edited By old mart on 04/09/2020 18:17:24

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Reggie, as it happens, I still have my fathers RandA model B lathe as shown below, when i gave it a strip down, clean and a repaint, about 28 years ago, which looks the same as what you have.

You will be very lucky to find a gear that you have missing, so you will probably have to make one or get one made by somebody. Although the gear wheel is a 60 tooth 20 DP with a 14-1/2 degree pressure angle, it will probably be slightly larger O/D than your 60 tooth change wheel, assuming you have one of those, but it should be the same O/D as the one on the back end of the spindle.

I have measured the one on my lathe and the O/D is 3.184" (80.9mm or there about) and the width on the teeth is 0.409" (10.4mm), but the boss portion is about 0.482" (12.25mm) but flush with the teeth side at the back.

If you would like a photo or two of it, let my know.

Regards Nick.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Reggie,

You might find a Polyvee belt more useful than the inside out vee belt

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

Hi thanks guys for the replies and so quickly. I thought it might be 60 tooth as I have the change gears and that one did fit when the back gear was engaged all though not meant to be there lol. Those measurements you gave are great nick so thanks.

If I have to I will get an engineer's place to make one up as there's no chance in hell I could make one.

Thanks Dave I will look into the belt.

Thanks old mart

I know I won't find another but just having the measurements means I can complete the lathe.

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

Sorry just figured out how to add photos

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Raggie, be sure to measure the O/D on the one on the spindle for the one you get made as it should be the same to give correct depth of the teeth. I will say it looks as if the lathe is driven directly from a pulley on the motor, but there should be a counter shaft between the motor and the lathe, otherwise you will having it running much to fast in direct drive. The sort of designs in the photos on the Lathes website should give you an idea of how to configure something.

Regards Nick.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

60 tooth 20DP 14.5PA is same spec as a Myford change gear. You might be able to adapt one to fit. Cheaper than getting one made. Plenty on Fleabay.

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

Cheers hopper

That does make things easier as all I need to do is drill and thread and add a grub screw. Many thanks.

Cheers for the advice nick will look into it. I have been reading the amateurs lathebook which is the only book I found which relates better to these older lathes. I did the measurements for the pulleys and the math to work out speed and the speeds seem to relate to what is mentioned in the book.

All though without a rpm counter I can't be definate and I'm just relying on my math skills. I will read up a bit more and take a look at counter shafts.

Once again thanks for your input folks as I'm only just leaning.

Reggie

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Hopper on 05/09/2020 23:15:55:

60 tooth 20DP 14.5PA is same spec as a Myford change gear. You might be able to adapt one to fit. Cheaper than getting one made. Plenty on Fleabay.

Hi Hopper, I know the Myford change wheels are the same, but Reggie needs a back gear wheel and although they are as best that I can identify as being the same profile, they have a slightly larger diameter, 3.184" as opposed to the change wheels of 3.1" and they do mesh but not perfectly, I guess because of the larger diameter. Below in the photos, I have shown the different diameters with a Myford change wheel that had been fitted to another RandA that I have that was fitted to the spindle, the other photo shows it sitting in the back gear on my fathers old RandA.

 

This is why Reggie should check the outside diameter of the one that is on his spindle before investing in any gear.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 06/09/2020 09:54:57

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Reggie,

If you want to "try before you buy", you could download a copy of GearDXF (free) or similar program, and print out the result. Stick it on a piece of card/board and cut it out. You can offer it up to your lathe and at least get an idea whether it will fit or not.

Here's a scrennshot of the gear, using the parameters supplied by Nicholas Farr, above. Centre bore is my guess.

John

P.S. You can get GearDXF from HERE

Edited By John Hinkley on 06/09/2020 10:02:36

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

Thanks guys I'm not home for a couple of days but when I get back will check your recommendations out. The gear app looks handy so will definitely check that out.

I will keep you updated.

Nick I will probably bug you at a later stage about the change wheels configuration for power feed and threading. I'm struggling to understand the setup for this

That one for a later date though

All the best

Update coming soon

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Not sure what gears are available in the myford range but a simpler solution to a 'special' would be one with a few more teeth say 62 or 64.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A 20 DP gear, 3.184" diameter , theoretically has 63.68 teeth. So a 64T would be a little oversize, and a 63T would be undersize. There are 63T gears available for mini lathes, but being Module gears, and 20'PA would not be suitable.

If there is a similar gear available for a Myford, this would be 20 DP and 14.5 PA so would be suitable if the bore and centre boss are suitable.

Howard

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Perhaps if somwone has an actual Myford 64 tooth they could measure it as it is unlikely to be exactly on theoretical dimension. Another option is to replace both the larger gears and modify the layshaft bracket to bring it in a bit. Admitedly such a modification is a little undesirable.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 08/09/2020 12:25:27:

A 20 DP gear, 3.184" diameter , theoretically has 63.68 teeth. So a 64T would be a little oversize, and a 63T would be undersize. There are 63T gears available for mini lathes, but being Module gears, and 20'PA would not be suitable.

If there is a similar gear available for a Myford, this would be 20 DP and 14.5 PA so would be suitable if the bore and centre boss are suitable.

Howard

Hi Howard, according to the formula in WPS 17, a 64 DP gear would have a blank of 3.3". I have measured my gears from 40 t0 70 in five tooth steps which they are for the RandA and none of them detract from this formula with any significant amount. The best I can get with this formula for a blank of 3.184 is 61.66, which of course you don't get and even 62 takes it over although only a small amount, but I think there will be no clearance at all. Maybe if Reggie's gear on the cone pulley is fairly worn, a 62 may go, but it's unlikely they will mesh without first releasing the screw in the cone pulley first, that locks it to the spindle.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 08/09/2020 19:20:20

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Bazyle on 08/09/2020 13:31:20:

Perhaps if somwone has an actual Myford 64 tooth they could measure it as it is unlikely to be exactly on theoretical dimension. Another option is to replace both the larger gears and modify the layshaft bracket to bring it in a bit. Admitedly such a modification is a little undesirable.

Hi Bazyle, the layshaft bracket is all part of the lathe casting and there would be virtually no leeway for much modification, the gears as they are don't clear by very much when they disengage.

Regards Nick.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hi Nicholas,

Correct! i got my sums wrong, on the basis of 3.184" dia x 20 dp = 63.68 ,and in my haste forgot the +2…

Certainly, I would not want to run gears with Zero or negative backlash, so a 6iT would have a lot of backlashh, unless the gear centres can be reduced (Which I would think is unlikely, and liking to be prototypical, undesirable ).

Howard

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Of course, it has to have the eccentric bush as you show. replace both gears and modify the bush. Try the measurements for 62 with the tips fo the teeth clipped as necessary.

It might also be possible to move the existing 60 to mesh on the inside position and on the more accessible outside use any two gears of any DP and any no of teeth and any pressure angle that match the needed centres. Nobody said these gears had to be a match tothe exsiting ones. One day, when the OP is a bit more confident and has time on his hands he can make the correct gear for 'authenticity'.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Bazyle, with regards to moving the existing 60 to the inside, isn't a straight forward option, as the thickness of this gear is slightly wider than the gap that the original gear goes into, plus the bore is 1" and the layshaft is only 5/8". I don't know what skills Reggie has, but of course there may not be any suitable gears to give a close reduction to what it should be, that will fit the centres. I further more don't know why the lager diameters with what appears to be a 20 DP gear were used, maybe there was a miss calculation in the original design, and perhaps after having a large batch of lathe beds ready for fitting out, these gears were the cheapest compromise. However, I have had a bit of a study of my RandA this morning and there seems to be a fair amount of backlash to make it worth while for Reggie to try a Myford 62 tooth change wheel and he may or may not have to either relieve the root of the teeth with a file and or skim the tops of the teeth, although these are slightly thinner than the original and will leave a small projection of the layshaft, which may make it awkward to fit a retaining screw between the shaft and the gear, but a suitable washer could be glued on the to the boss to bring it to the correct thickness and thus level with the end of the shaft.

The photo shows a Myford 25 tooth change wheel sitting on top of the gear attached to the cone pulley, while you can notice the slight difference in the diameters, the profile and depth of the teeth do not show any significant difference. The second photo shows a 65 tooth original change wheel in the cone pulley gear.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 09/09/2020 11:44:55

[Reggie ChantParticipant @reggiechant34558]

Hi all

Thanks for your responses. I need to enquire how much it would cost to get a gear made but I fear it will be very expensive. I will keep my eyes open for a second hand Randa lathe that I could use for spares.

I will check cost first.

Cheers

Reggie

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Reggie, the RandA "A" type has the same gears, so look out for one of them also with all the gears on.

Sadly this one has all the gackgears missing.

Regards Nick.

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