Quick change tool post and ball cutting

[Margaret TrelawnyParticipant @margarettrelawny34058]

Hello gentlemen,

I am considering converting my lathe tool post to one of the quick-change types. There are plenty on ebay of the cheap Chinese type – I wonder, has anyone had any experience with them? Are they any good? Do they last longer than a lettuce? 😊 I’d love a Myford or similar but can’t afford such luxuries at the moment.

Ball cutting: I’d like to make a simple ball cutter and wondered if anyone had done this using a boring head? Mr Ade Swash made a lovely example (on YouTube) but I don’t have his range of skills or milling machine – so mine would need to be fairly simply made.

Any suggestions or advice most welcome.

Thank you

Edited By Margaret Trelawny on 23/07/2023 23:03:09

[Margaret TrelawnyParticipant @margarettrelawny34058]

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

It may help if you state your type of lathe so others have a better idea of a suitable tool-post.

The simplest types available, made for small lathes, rely on being basically a split clamp to hold the tool-block itself. Probably fine for light work but the more sophisticated forms, with a cam action, such as those made for the Myford lathes (similar to the bigger industrial varieties) are likely to be more accurate and last a lot longer.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Mrgaret,

If you have a boring head with replacable shank you could make a new cylindrical shaft and a suitable toolpost-holder, something like this. Several descriptions of how to make one on the Internet;

***Link***

***Link***

Thor

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Margaret,

Thanks for putting me on to 'Mr Ade Swash' …. he has a very good YT channel.

As for QCTPs, I use ArcEuroTrade ones – they are adequate enough for my skill level…. https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/SIEG-C3-SC2-SC3-Mini-Lathes/C3-SC2-SC3-Accessories/C3-Quick-Change-Tool-Post-Set …. I have an Arc supplied Sieg SC2 lathe.

Arc do a wide range of QCTPs… https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathe-Accessories/Tool-Posts

Ches

[Margaret TrelawnyParticipant @margarettrelawny34058]

Hello gents,

Thanks for the replies. Ches, you are welcome, Mr Swash has some great content – I have learned a lot from watching his channel.

The lathe is a Chinese type from Amadeal (Dad bought it about 12 years ago). It hasn't had a great deal of use.

This is the tool post currently fitted (see pic). I'd like to upgrade because setting up the tool each time and turning down the allen keys gets very tiring and time consuming.

Is a piston-type or wedge-type a better option?

Thanks all

Margaret

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Rigidity is always a potential problem with QCTP on a small lathe – extra points and overhang to contend with.

Arceuro is my go-to supplier of all things for lathe/mill. They get most of my trade.

Another option is to make an identical 4-way toolpost and swap as necessary. OK, I never had more than three cutters installed, but a home-made copy could be cheap and reasonably effective as an alternative.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

QC toolposts may seem a great idea, but like most things they can have a few drawbacks.

In reality – how often do you change tools in a session and is it really so time consuming – I assume you're not in a manufacturing environment on piece work? One issue you will find is that the QC toolpost gives more overhang from the mounting on the cross slide / compound – this results in less rigidity which can lead to a poorer surface finish on work. Depending on the type that you get you may find an issue with the tool centre height not being as consistent as you might believe due to the way these holders seat. I regularly find myself re checking the CH of mine.

Should you try parting-off using one you may find a disaster in the offing (again due to the lack of rigidity)

Its all down to personal choice of course, but with a pretty light lathe like yours you may find the rigidity issue one to think about.

regards Mike

'not done it yet ' beat me to some of the salient points!

Edited By Mike Hurley on 24/07/2023 09:46:17

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I use a QCTP on both of my lathes but have also used four-way tool-posts like that.

I don't find the four-way tool-post significantly less convenient for setting than the QC type. A bit slower as you still need set each tool to height but now using shims. You still have lots of screws to tighten.

Most turning operations don't need more than 4 tools anyway: although using a QCTP means you can build up a set of more than four ready-installed tools. One of mine holds the knurling tool, another a screw-cutting tool.

If set appropriately an indexing 4-way post is marginally quicker to operate than a QCTP, especially for repetition work, but there is not much in it. (A capstan lathe is one with souped-up, 6-way versions of indexing toolposts.)

Some users of 4-WTPs and plain top-slides, keep a set of appropriate shims with each tool, especially if using insert tools whose own geometry is constant.

.

Their drawbacks are the tools not in immediate use are sharp pointy things happy to bite your hand, and occasionally, the projecting tools are in the way of the tailstock or chuck.

The other main disadvantage of a plain 4-way toolpost without indexing, compared to a drop-in type QCTP, is that you need use a straight-edge or square to align each turn to the slide for repeatability. It should not be too difficult to make some form of indexer for it, though.

Otherwise really, there is not much to choose between the two systems.

.

I am not familiar with Amadeal lathes but the photograph suggests yours will take a rear tool-post usually dedicated to holding the parting-tool; and you may find that more useful than changing the tool-post.

[Margaret TrelawnyParticipant @margarettrelawny34058]

Thanks not-done-it-yet (great name btw!) – that's very interesting. I never considered the rigidity issue. I also never considered having an identical 4-way toolpost. That would work.

Mike – you are right, it doesn't get much use, but I saw Mr Swash using the quick change set up and thought it was a great idea – although his lathe (Myford M7 I think?) is a lot bigger and more robust than mine I assume.

I would like to avoid potential disasters!

Thank you both.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the previous posters; I don't bother with a QCTP for the same reasons. Early on I bought a Dickson toolpost and some holders, but never fitted it, and never will.

Most of my turning is done with four tools; a RH knife tool, RH oblique tool to use the other corner on the inserts, parting off blade and a boring bar. If I need to change tools on a job it is simple to keep the shims with the tool after initial setup. Centre height isn't as critical as is made out; I line up by eye against a centre in the tailstock.

I can't comment on ball turning units as I've never used one. For handles and non-critical work I chamfer and then use files. For more precise work I use a hydraulic copy unit:

It came with a custom Dickson toolpost, so I use it. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it.

Andrew

[Margaret TrelawnyParticipant @margarettrelawny34058]

Oooh, another thing I wanted to ask… a couple of the tools I have (the 8mm boring bar recommended last week) are slightly lower than centre when mounted in the tool post. I can't find a way of changing the height of the tool post – is shimming the tool the only way around this?

Thank you all.

[Anonymous]

Following on from Nigel's post my 4-way toolpost is sort of indexing, every 9 degrees. In the above picture of the copy unit the indexing plate can just be seen lower left. That is one reason I never fitted the Dickson toolpost.

I keep meaning to machine a single block shim to the correct thickness for my commonly used tools, but have never quite been irritated enough when changing tools to do so.

Andrew

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

There are 2 types of the budget tool posts.

One uses a button which is pushed out by a cam and the other uses a screw to raise and lower a wedge.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Margaret Trelawny on 24/07/2023 10:01:02:

Oooh, another thing I wanted to ask… a couple of the tools I have (the 8mm boring bar recommended last week) are slightly lower than centre when mounted in the tool post. I can't find a way of changing the height of the tool post – is shimming the tool the only way around this?

Shimming would be the easiest way, keep the shim with the tool then it will be quicker the next time you want to use it. Note on the insert bars it is the height of the corner of the insert you want to be setting the height of.

Or like me once you have a QCTP a holder for each bar make it quick to change and it will also go back into the same position which is handy if you are doing two or more parts the same.

Edited By JasonB on 24/07/2023 10:14:32

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

'orses for courses' I use a QCTP system for light – ish work but my OEM Myford toolpost is always handy for a quick swap to thicker section tools, be it HSS or brazed tip carbides. Always heavier option for iron castings e.g., loco wheels. Centre height adjustment with Myford oem clamp is quick and easy if you store each tool with its appropriate packing, like I do. Beware!

I bought a cheapie QCTP system many years ago from a toolstand at an exhibition and a few holders. When I later wanted more, he had discontinued them. His punishment is strict avoidance of that dodgy trader. My go – to for tools is Arceuro and a limited number of regular advertisers. Big items, only buy big brands.

John

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

I fitted a wedge type QCTP to my WM250 and find it a useful addition. Can still use the 4-way original post as well so have both options covered. Don't find any particular rigidity problems and if necessary can also do away with the top-slide and just fit the toolpost directly to the cross-slide.

You can see what I did here – Cross-slide toolpost and here top-slide toolpost for the WM250.

John

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

I am happy with my Arc bought quick change tool post. First thing I bought after the Seig lathe. I previously used one on my Myford 254.
Not found any problems as I do not use heavy cuts and have sympathy with the machines I use.

Tool heights will alter when the tool is reground if not using inserts, needing reshiming.

Ian

Edited By Ian Hewson on 24/07/2023 11:00:49

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 24/07/2023 10:00:

"If I need to change tools on a job it is simple to keep the shims with the tool after initial setup. Centre height isn't as critical as is made out; I line up by eye against a centre in the tailstock."

I completely agree. Rather than invest serious money on QCTP take a little time to make some shims that FIT your conventional 4 way post. Tbat will give a stiffer set up than a tip clamped in a shank, clamped in a toolholder, clamped in a toolpost, clamped down to a top slide.

Martin

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

+1 for the multiple identical 4 way or 2 way posts as an effective alternative to a QC system for the impecunious person.

Way back in my Southbend driving days I had four 4-way posts kept ready loaded with tools and simply swopped them over. Before the ready availability of import equipment. Only industrial quality QC posts were around. Totally unaffordable for me so I had to get creative. A little easier with a SouthBend because it has a T slot in the topslide so it's only necessary to loosen the top nut to release rather than undo it completely.

In practice I found that loading only two tools at a time worked better due to less porcupine effect and more freedom to adjust extension.

Shimming tools to height is much easer with removable 4 or 2 way because it can be done on the bench by measurement. Needs a set of sorted shim sizes. The colour coded plastic shim sets are a great help. These days I'd make a permanent gauge with an inexpensive plunger indicator fitted with an elephants foot on the end in simple fixed holder to measure in situ. Back then I used my second best vernier to measure the tool directly and worked out the shims needed to match the known centre height of the lathe.

Perfectly satisfactory toolposts can be made by gluing and screwing stock sections of plate and bar together. I used 5 or 6 mm countersunk head screws and tapped the centre block right through for them. Alloy is fine for the centre. In retrospect I should have made two way posts as being more compact.

One advantage of the DIY approach is that you can make the baseplate the right size to use insert tooling without shims.

I now use a QC system because my current lathes came so fitted but you do need enough holders to keep a good selection of tools mounted if the advantages of QC are to be realised. I usually have between 12 and 16 holders filled ready to go. Helps that both machines are set up to be interchangeable.

It is said that 8 is the minimum satisfactory complement of holders given that one will be dedicated to a parting tool and at least one to a boring tool.

Even on my big machines the sheer bulk of the QC post can be a problem as it sometimes gets in the way. Mostly when the tailstock centre is in use.

Prior to (and since) changing lathes I've devised a number of simply made ways to make releasing a bolt down toolpost by around 1/3 rd of a turn of the hold down screw to eliminate the prime speed disadvantage of block changing relative to QC posts. Never made any tho'.

Blocks tend to make it easier to accommodate relatively large, stiff, boring tools. Simple drilled hole on centre height to hold a round bar is strong and effective. Swanky folk interpose an eccentric sleeve for height adjustment.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 24/07/2023 13:02:44

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Posted by JasonB on 24/07/2023 10:13:05:

Posted by Margaret Trelawny on 24/07/2023 10:01:02:

Oooh, another thing I wanted to ask… a couple of the tools I have (the 8mm boring bar recommended last week) are slightly lower than centre when mounted in the tool post. I can't find a way of changing the height of the tool post – is shimming the tool the only way around this?

Shimming would be the easiest way, keep the shim with the tool then it will be quicker the next time you want to use it. Note on the insert bars it is the height of the corner of the insert you want to be setting the hei

I agree with Jason. Shimming is the best way on this case. I keep my hss tools in a flat box with simple dividers glued in place, I keep the shims in the same slot as the tool which they match. Means I can select a tool with its shims immediately and know it will be at CH. Just recheck shims after grinding a tool

Regards

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Hello, Margaret,

There is quite a bit of stuff online about ball-cutting. I made a ball-cutter similar to the one shown in this link, and found it simple to make and works well.

LINK

Its item 13 in the list of gadgets. The page on Lathe Modifications also has some stuff on QCTPs – maybe some of the other ideas may be useful to you as well.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Mikes strategy of keeping tools and shim sets together in a divided box is undoubtably effective but takes a, to me, terrifying degree of super organisation.

No way could I mange that so pre-loaded posts were the way for me.

One advantage of of pre-loaded posts over swopping tool and shim sets in a single post is that tool projection distance settings are retained. Just as with a QC system. So if you have to make several parts needing tool changes during a job swopping posts rather than tools means you don't necessarily have to reset the dials after each change. Probably best to verify before the final cut on a precision part tho'.

Clive

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Clive Foster on 24/07/2023 12:59:33:

+1 for the multiple identical 4 way or 2 way posts as an effective alternative to a QC system f

This is the way I want to go, Clive, with my 8×16 [M10 toolpost stud] lathe. The only snag is finding someone who actually sells standalone 4 way toolposts. QCTPs, by contrast, can be found everywhere.

If anyone knows a source, please let me know.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Have considere QCTPs but stuck with my 4 way.

Cost Would cost over £250 for the nuber of holders needed fo the tools used.

Space Having a small, congested workshop, akin to Rubik's Cube, little or no space to store the unused holders.

Rigidity Wary of being less rigid that a 4 way toolpost becaus of the overhang and the interfaces.

All of which reduce rigidity.

But, you makes your choice and pays your monery.

Do what best suits you.

A 4 way toolpost will carry 3 tools. Shims? old feeler gauges, or cut up biscuit tims (About 0.010" thick in most cases. Pity that so many food tins are corrugated, although maybe the lids could be cut up and reused.

My lathe has 2 longitudinal T slots in the Cross Slide , so I made an indexable 4 way toolpost to go on the rear. This carries the parting tool, and tools for front and back chamfering.,

There may be a picture in my albums, showing front and rear in position.

Just checked, third from bottom. If you want more details, PM me, and I'll try to find the number of the Issue with the article.

MEW published an article on it (One of the few times that I made drawings, rather than a sketch on the back od an envelope )

You can change the dimensions to suit your machine., if you so wish.

HTH

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 24/07/2023 14:01:49

[Author]

Posts