Question about clock dial

[JouniPParticipant @jounip]

[JouniPParticipant @jounip]

Hello

I have old Swedish Mora grandfather clock I am going to restore. Clock Dial is painted on metal plate and in my opinion it is beyond restoring. I have to remove paint and repaint it. I am wondering why dial has number 59 (or perhaps 39) painted above 12 o´clock. Does someone knows why there is number 59/39 above 12 instead of number 60?

Jouni

[JouniPParticipant @jounip]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Assuming that the other peripheral numbers are 15, 30, and 45 [a reasonable assumption, I think] … and they are all in the normal orientation … it is [just] plausible to read the top number as 60

MichaelG.

[clutching at straws]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I would put that plate in a plastic bag and pop it in the base of the case, just in case(ho) it adds a lot to the value.

It won't be a hard to make a copy.

Neil

[egaParticipant @ega]

Neil Wyatt:

I think you make a very good point.

How would you achieve the apparent slight doming of the face? By spinning, perhaps.

Or the craqelure?

Edited By ega on 30/09/2017 19:04:03

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ega on 30/09/2017 19:03:40:

How would you achieve [ … ] the craqelure?

.

Would you really want to ?

Restoration is, I believe, broadly a matter of returning an item to a previous state.

… the difficult decision being to choose one of the many previous states

[ a problem shared by the likes of the National Trust, of course ]

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … I do agree that, for this clock, it would be best to archive the original dial and make a replica.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 30/09/2017 21:14:23

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

I'd make a new one too, and as everyone else says, keep the old one with the case. The current idea with regards to restoration is that every action should be reversible. The only truly reversible idea with the dial in that state is replacement and retention of the original.

Regards

Richard.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

The method you use to dome the face depends on the material, the thickness, the diameter and the height and profile of the doming.

If you use a softish material (aluminium, copper, or yellow type brass, and the diameter is not too large you could turn wooden formers and press them together with the sheet between them. A bit of experimentation would solve the springback problem. A hammer or mallet might mean you dont need a powerful press.

If the curvature is not too large consider painting or screen printing the dial before doming, the paint should adhere well enough especially if you warm everything up first, (hot summers day type heat). Obviously the surface of tehg former must be smooth and a sheet of paper or polythene would be kinder to the paint.

Ian P

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by ega on 30/09/2017 19:03:40:

Neil Wyatt:

I think you make a very good point.

How would you achieve the apparent slight doming of the face? By spinning, perhaps.

Or the craqelure?

Doming by putting it on a sandbag and applying gently force with a pear shaped wooden mallet (That's how it's done, I don't say I have the skill…)

I have achieved that finish accidentally by using incompatible paints… but google 'crackle paint'.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 30/09/2017 18:19:24:

Assuming that the other peripheral numbers are 15, 30, and 45 [a reasonable assumption, I think] … and they are all in the normal orientation … it is [just] plausible to read the top number as 60

MichaelG.

[clutching at straws]

I agree. My guess is that this is a hand-painted dial and the chap finished off with an ornamental superscripted 0 on the sixty.

Hard to know what the fashion was in Sweden, but I've noticed 18th century English documents often feature superscripted embellishments like 'J^no' for 'John'. Strange to modern eyes, but not at the time. Possibly another example on the dial: the '30' looks like a '50' to me. I think that's because my brain assumes the closest numeral I'm used to seeing, a '5'. When I look closer it's obviously a script '3'.

People used to writing with quill pens may have been much more familiar with fancy scripts. They may have disappeared because script is hard to replicate in print. I think 'The Times' switched to steam powered printing in 1812, and the flood of cheap text would rapidly have made the characters we expect the norm.

Dave

Edits Typos galore.

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 01/10/2017 10:46:05

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 01/10/2017 10:47:36

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

Interesting query…. difficult though to really imagine either the “39” or “50” are anything but intentional given the images of other Mora clock faces from that era. But, yes why ??

I’d certainly support the posters who recommend retaining the clock face you have. Is it worth trying to:-

(a) get a valuation on your "unique" Mora face?

(b) obtaining another, but better one ? There seem to be plenty of references to sellers & stockists e.g. **LINK**

[Sorry & no personal offence intended ~ but as much as I like longcase clocks, those 'pregnant belly' Mora clocks have always looked hideous to me]

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

I have restored a number of English dials.

I dont think your original is beyond hope or needs replacement. To retain the original dial restored would be the ultimate aim I would suggest.

I dont think this is very difficult.

You just have to understand how these dials were made originally.

Cheers,

Julian

[JouniPParticipant @jounip]

Perhaps I should say that I am trying to make my clock work again. instead of restoring it. I agree that it would be better to store oririnal dial and make a new one. Propably that would be much faster to make new dial than repaint old. Either way, value of my clock is quite low.Someone from the past has already fixed it very badly If You look at following picture, you can see part of the pocket watch soldered to clock plate used as a bushing and pocket watch wheels used as a washers. I am quite sure that these are not original parts of the movement.

My clock has more square case than those pregnant belly clocks. I do not know if this case (or movement) is original or not.

Back to the original questtion. If everyone says that number above 12 is 60 I accept that, but in my opinion that number does not look like 60. If number is not 60, is the any reason for that?

Jouni

[JouniPParticipant @jounip]

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