Problem with penetrating oil can

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I wonder where Plus-Gas would score on that test? One flaw of course is how closely-matched the corrosion grip was, across the range of test-pieces.

I don't doubt there "home brew" but I would think the acetone would evaporate rather than soak in, leaving the transmission fluid to do the real work, but I suppose it helped the oil to penetrate the joint. I wonder what the "local machinist group" was engaged in for all members to need share batches of the stuff, apparently regularly! Searching by the name on the photo revealed "Server not found". Perhaps dissolved in all that acetone.

WD-40 is mainly white spirit, with some sort of thin oil dissolved in it.

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In front of me is an "Otex" (ear un-blocker) dropper bottle with a little spout. it is very small but a candidate applicator for small spots of lubricant in tasks like tapping.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

These results have been shown on a number of reports. The point is you want a very thin solvent to carry a tiny amount of oil into the finest gaps and then for the solvent to push-off, ie evaporate. There is only one thing to use for this because it fully meets the criteria and we've all got some knocking around. – 2 stroke fuel.

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

We used to use diesel fuel applied to rusted up or seized stuff, where I used to work, that used to work reasonably well

[BountyboyParticipant @bountyboy]

I bought this from Tool Station, less wasteful than an aerosol, better for the environment, cheaper as buying in bulk and comes with spray bottle. Must admit the price has gone up since I bought it a couple of years ago.

WD40 5 Litre

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Acetone and my regular ATF fluid are immiscible and separate out in seconds. So what brand of ATF fluid mixes with acetone?

If you want 5 litres of WD40 clone, then Smith and Allan is the place to google. Excellent products and good value.

Andrew.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Acetone and my regular ATF fluid are immiscible and separate out in seconds. So what brand of ATF fluid mixes with acetone?

If you want 5 litres of WD40 clone, then Smith and Allan is the place to google. Excellent products and good value.

Andrew.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 27/03/2023 11:44:43:

Acetone and my regular ATF fluid are immiscible and separate out in seconds. So what brand of ATF fluid mixes with acetone?

That was my experience when I tried it out of curiosity. Considering the cost of both ATF and acetone, I'm not convinced of the monetary saving either.

I've only ever found penetrating fluid(of whatever type) to be of any use when the parts were only just past coming apart with the appropriate tool. In those circumstances it's used to get the screw/bolt/nut/pin out quickly so that more drastic methods aren't necessary. It's particularly irritating to be told after you've used heat, violence, hammers, swearing and grinders/drills to get out an already rounded off fastener that Scammer's Miracle Snot would have worked instantly.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 27/03/2023 11:44:44:

Acetone and my regular ATF fluid are immiscible and separate out in seconds. So what brand of ATF fluid mixes with acetone?

…

Good question: problem of course is that ATF isn't a single straightforward item, it's shorthand for hundreds of different mixtures. Two fluids with the same specification (as an ATF), can even be made from completely different materials. Quite likely the customer has no idea what's in the can, and the only way to find out if Acetone mixes is to try it.

About 10 years ago I mixed acetone with ATF successfully, so it's not impossible, and it worked OK. Can't find the can in my garage to confirm what it was! A generic brand bought from a motor factor for this purpose, so I can't link it to a particular car. I guess I got lucky. Can't say it worked better than Plus Gas.

It does show how unreliable comparative tables of the 'Penetrating Oils Compared' type are. It says ATF and Acetone are best and that everybody uses it, whilst Andrew reports he can't get the two to mix at all. Like many folk remedies, the specification is inadequate.

Worse, the methodology isn't explained, so we've no idea how fair the result is. Done properly, many thousands of different nuts and bolts have to be corroded together, the liquids applied by someone who doesn't know what they are, and undone by someone who doesn't know either. Small samples in comparisons like this are meaningless. And maybe the test ignores the possibility products are targetted at different types of problem: better at some, less effective on others.

Amateurs love to believe unlikely mixes of cheap traditional products perform better than commercial products. Usually not! ATF containing a lubricant that will be carried deep into a corroded joint by a light spirit like Acetone certainly works, but the fumes and effect on skin may not be safe enough to sell the mix commercially. And what about shelf-life? Acetone is likely to evaporate quickly on the shelf, leaving pure ATF behind in the bottle that won't penetrate next time.

Commercial products are safer, more reliable, and have longer shelf lives. And instructions…

Dave

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

Across the pond We have had at least 2 kinds of ATF, one Ford and one Chevy(naturally). It had to do with the type of clutches the transmissions used. Now a days probably every car maker has their own formula, of which Theirs is best.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Apart from regretting posting the photo now (only kidding!), here's a story expanding a little on what Mark says about proprietary fluids,

I recently changed the clutch on a Citroen C1 – which is the same car as a Toyota Aygo or Peugeot 106. You have to drain the gearbox oil as the driveshafts need to be removed. A quick check of the manual revealed there is only one approved oil – Mobil 75. Wanting to do it right, I started trying to find some (it takes 1.75 litres). According to the Mobil website, my local distributor is, surprisingly, Kwik-Fit. Phoned up and was met with the audio equivalent of a blank stare. "No idea what you're talking about, mate, just get 75W-90 from Euro Car Parts, that where we get ours."

A while later, after trying a few other leads, I thought I'd try the Citroen dealer. A bit of confusion and a check on their computer later, they came up with "Oh, we can get it, it's something we'd need to order specially. It'll say Citroen on the label but it's the proper stuff. The price? £119.00 per litre"

Needless to say, I just drained the old stuff into a clean container, and put it back in, topping up with the generic 75W-90.

I wonder how many Citroen / Toyota / Peugeot dealers actually use the approved stuff when doing a clutch change? Comparing the specs of the proper stuff with the common or garden variety does reveal that the dynamic viscosity figures are quite different.

Rob

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

Just in case it's keeping you awake at night :-

Opie Oils

I've used Opie for quite a few years now, as they tend to stock some "out of the ordinary" oils and greases.

Edited By Nick Hughes on 27/03/2023 20:46:04

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Good grief! Thanks Nick, makes you wonder about the main dealers, doesn't it? Bookmarked for future reference.

Rob

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