Privacy Glass in cars

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Pete. on 09/12/2022 00:28:22:

If you find yourself needing to view through the car in fronts windscreen to see the road, you should probably slow down a bit, put a bit of distance between your car and the car in front and use your own windscreen to view the road.

You don't do it to see the road.

You do it to see what is happening in or near the road, so you're ready for the car in front slowing down, turning off, pulling out, swerving out of the way of a pothole or any of the other things that can seriously ruin your day.

Most things that surprise drivers are visible if they're paying enough attention and looking far enough ahead!

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Drivers should be leaving enough space between them and the vehicle in front that they don't need to see past (or through) it to drive and stop safely. The only thing that you see through the other car's rear window that helps safety is a high level brake light. Privacy glass does not stop you seeing those.

If you can't see enough, past the vehicle in front, for any reason, just back off.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the two second rule springs to mind here 2 second rule (Wikipedia) in the link, some places suggest that you should use a three second rule, the most important thing is to kept a safe distance between your own vehicle and the vehicle in front of you, in accordance to the speed you a doing, the higher the speed the longer the distance should be.

Regards Nick.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 09/12/2022 09:28:08:

Drivers should be leaving enough space between them and the vehicle in front that they don't need to see past (or through) it to drive and stop safely. The only thing that you see through the other car's rear window that helps safety is a high level brake light. Privacy glass does not stop you seeing those.

If you can't see enough, past the vehicle in front, for any reason, just back off.

Looking around, or through if possible, is in addition to that not instead of it. Looking further ahead and being more aware of what is happening all around you is the basis of any driving training that goes beyond just getting your license – whether that's driving larger vehicles, motorcycles, racecars or emergency vehicles. There are a number of 'commentary driving' videos on Youtube that show just how unaware most drivers are.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

I have no problem with the tinted glass in my or anyone elses cars. I like the added privacy and heat reduction it affords. I drive in a manner allowing me to stop in an emergency rather that run into the car in front. I can see brake lights & indicators through the rear window of the car in front even when they are tinted. As said before "you cannot see through the solid rear doors of most vans" so what is the difference ?

regards

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/12/2022 10:17:36:

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 09/12/2022 09:28:08:

Drivers should be leaving enough space between them and the vehicle in front that they don't need to see past (or through) it to drive and stop safely. The only thing that you see through the other car's rear window that helps safety is a high level brake light. Privacy glass does not stop you seeing those.

If you can't see enough, past the vehicle in front, for any reason, just back off.

Looking around, or through if possible, is in addition to that not instead of it. Looking further ahead and being more aware of what is happening all around you is the basis of any driving training that goes beyond just getting your license – whether that's driving larger vehicles, motorcycles, racecars or emergency vehicles. There are a number of 'commentary driving' videos on Youtube that show just how unaware most drivers are.

I agree with Nicholas: it's safer when drivers read the road in front. It's why traffic lights often have high repeaters that can be seen over the roofs of vehicles from some distance away. Also helpful to see brake lights coming on beyond the car immediately in front, because the 2 second rule only works if the clot in front is paying attention and his lights are working. Looking ahead buys the time needed to reduce the chance of getting into a pile-up. It's done in addition to normal driving.

Tinted rear windows might add to another problem, which is the class of drivers blissfully unaware of what's going on behind them! We all do it a bit, but some folk pay no attention whatever. Gigantic queues allowed to build up behind caravans, drivers unaware of overtaking cars and especially motorbikes, and getting in the way of ambulances and fire-engines. Yesterday I was in a queue of cars slowing down as we approached traffic lights at the end of a dual carriageway, when we were overtaken and carved up by a sports car. No doubt the owner thinks he's an excellent driver, but his stupidity caused everyone behind to brake sharply. No-one skidded but the fool came close to causing an accident. He probably boasts about how often the accelerator gets him out of trouble.

I don't count myself a good driver: I just avoid getting in the way and being in or causing 'accidents'!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 09/12/2022 11:04:00

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Many years ago I was driving home from work in my Caterham 7. I had just crossed a set of traffic lights with other traffic when a guy in car going the opposite direction turned his head to look at my car. He looked for a little too long!! The cars in front of him had stopped for the traffic lights. He rammed the car in front of him. Problem was the five cars behind him who were not watching the road properly either. Ended up with a 6/7 car pileup with all cars travelling at about 15 to 20 mph.

Colin

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Colin Heseltine on 09/12/2022 12:44:52:

Many years ago I was driving home from work in my Caterham 7. I had just crossed a set of traffic lights with other traffic when a guy in car going the opposite direction turned his head to look at my car. He looked for a little too long!! The cars in front of him had stopped for the traffic lights. He rammed the car in front of him. Problem was the five cars behind him who were not watching the road properly either. Ended up with a 6/7 car pileup with all cars travelling at about 15 to 20 mph.

Colin

QED

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Nicholas, QED? Sorry, it wouldn't have made any difference if all the cars ahead were open topped, those not looking where they should be while driving, have only themselves to blame.

Regards Nick.

[Anonymous]

When I learned to drive (including one or two lessons at the Police Driving School) the admonition for safe driving was to look well down the road to monitor changing traffic/other conditions …. not just myopically limiting your attention to your stopping distance.

Much easier in those days; almost impossible now with current traffic volumes. Pretty much a necessity to look through the vehicle in front. Mercedes white vans have a lot to answer for.

As far as leaving large amounts of room from the car in front – nice motherhood but around here if you do that you can be certain that someone(s) will jump in and fill up the gap.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 09/12/2022 16:36:16:

When I learned to drive (including one or two lessons at the Police Driving School) the admonition for safe driving was to look well down the road to monitor changing traffic/other conditions …. not just myopically limiting your attention to your stopping distance.

…

The police used to teach the practice of running commentary and I believe the conventional phrase for what you describe was "search ahead".

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/12/2022 09:11:17:

Posted by Pete. on 09/12/2022 00:28:22:

If you find yourself needing to view through the car in fronts windscreen to see the road, you should probably slow down a bit, put a bit of distance between your car and the car in front and use your own windscreen to view the road.

You don't do it to see the road.

You do it to see what is happening in or near the road, so you're ready for the car in front slowing down, turning off, pulling out, swerving out of the way of a pothole or any of the other things that can seriously ruin your day.

Most things that surprise drivers are visible if they're paying enough attention and looking far enough ahead!

How far behind the car in front are you? country road, twists and turns 45~50mph safe travelling speed, how far behind the car in front would you be?

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Pete. on 11/12/2022 00:02:57:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/12/2022 09:11:17:

Posted by Pete. on 09/12/2022 00:28:22:

If you find yourself needing to view through the car in fronts windscreen to see the road, you should probably slow down a bit, put a bit of distance between your car and the car in front and use your own windscreen to view the road.

You don't do it to see the road.

You do it to see what is happening in or near the road, so you're ready for the car in front slowing down, turning off, pulling out, swerving out of the way of a pothole or any of the other things that can seriously ruin your day.

Most things that surprise drivers are visible if they're paying enough attention and looking far enough ahead!

How far behind the car in front are you? country road, twists and turns 45~50mph safe travelling speed, how far behind the car in front would you be?

Far enough that I can see in front of it. That can also be done by moving the position of the car in your lane. And yes, it often requires adjusting to a slower speed than I would use if the road were clear. It takes practice and patience which is the bit that rules out lots of drivers road users achieving this. As I think this thread shows…

It's perfectly possible to drive through the rush hour traffic on the M25 without touching the brakes by looking at all the traffic.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 11/12/2022 08:18:50:

Posted by Pete. on 11/12/2022 00:02:57:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/12/2022 09:11:17:

Posted by Pete. on 09/12/2022 00:28:22:

If you find yourself needing to view through the car in fronts windscreen to see the road, you should probably slow down a bit, put a bit of distance between your car and the car in front and use your own windscreen to view the road.

You don't do it to see the road.

You do it to see what is happening in or near the road, so you're ready for the car in front slowing down, turning off, pulling out, swerving out of the way of a pothole or any of the other things that can seriously ruin your day.

Most things that surprise drivers are visible if they're paying enough attention and looking far enough ahead!

How far behind the car in front are you? country road, twists and turns 45~50mph safe travelling speed, how far behind the car in front would you be?

Far enough that I can see in front of it. That can also be done by moving the position of the car in your lane. And yes, it often requires adjusting to a slower speed than I would use if the road were clear. It takes practice and patience which is the bit that rules out lots of drivers road users achieving this. As I think this thread shows…

It's perfectly possible to drive through the rush hour traffic on the M25 without touching the brakes by looking at all the traffic.

So if you can see sufficiently, what difference does tinted rear windows make?

 

Edit, I was looking for a measurement of distance? As safety is clearly subjective given the driving behaviour I witness nearly every time I go anywhere in my car, clearly people have very different ideas about what is safe. 

Edited By Pete. on 12/12/2022 23:12:26

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well in the last few days when I've been driving, I had a go at looking through the car in front, and to be honest, while I was at what I believed to be travelling a safe distance behind, I found it trying to look through a letter box, is that tunnel vision or what? I get better judgement looking round the outside of the car and looking at the traffic ahead in general. I can say that I never got any advice about looking through the car in front during my driving lessons, and yes I did go to a very reputable driving school, and yes, I did pass my test first time, and my examiner was well known for not allowing minor mistakes to pass, I knew many people that he failed for silly little things, and he failed my younger brother, just for proceeding when someone clearly flashed him to proceed first, Yes I know you should ignore those that flash you to go, but I'll bet most people don't ignore others that flash, but I do wave others on myself if and or when it is safe to do so. Like others have said, you can't see through the likes of lorries or buses or cars full of people on the larger size or cars towing box trailers or caravans.

Regards Nick.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Having had these windows in cars for many years, I certainly wouldn't want a car without them. I have no problem with rear vision and I don't drive looking through other cars in front! (can't believe that one!) Sideways vision is not compromised either; security is enhanced, and the car stays cooler in summer! I also prefer the look of them, but that is a personal choice of course.

Maybe a thread on the increasing use of high power LED running lights would be more useful. To me, these seem to be an adornment which is now spreading all over the car, front and rear, and not just the safety aid they were intended to be.

[SakuraParticipant @sakura]

Personally, I'm an excellent driver but I'm amazed how many accidents I see in my rear view mirror!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Pete. on 12/12/2022 23:07:13:

[…]

Edit, I was looking for a measurement of distance? As safety is clearly subjective given the driving behaviour I witness nearly every time I go anywhere in my car, clearly people have very different ideas about what is safe.

.

Long time ago, when I did the ROSPA advanced driving course, the easy answer to that was “Two Seconds”

… There was even a ‘mantra’ at the time: Intended to drum it Into people:

”Only a fool breaks the two-second rule”

Do the sums, and you will see close correspondence with the multitude of “stopping distances”

… it still works for me [except, of course, when somebody dives into that massive gap]

MichaelG.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

As a significant number of us are probably old gits we have probably discovered that the accelerator is a proportional device and not a switch and our copilot prefers smooth acceleration and gentle braking. We have probably discovered that going hell for leather gains only a few minutes on a journey time but wears our vehicle out and drains the tank very quickly. My wife’s cousin lived just outside Paris for a few years and remarked that he had learned to drive his car properly on his trips to visit his parents in West Oxfordshire, he was having to stop for fuel when he made the trip with aggressive throttle and hard braking but he could comfortably make the trip on a tankful with a more economical driving style. I think his rear windows were clear.

Mike

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Pete. on 12/12/2022 23:07:13:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 11/12/2022 08:18:50:

Posted by Pete. on 11/12/2022 00:02:57:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/12/2022 09:11:17:

Posted by Pete. on 09/12/2022 00:28:22:

If you find yourself needing to view through the car in fronts windscreen to see the road, you should probably slow down a bit, put a bit of distance between your car and the car in front and use your own windscreen to view the road.

…

Most things that surprise drivers are visible if they're paying enough attention and looking far enough ahead!

How far behind the car in front are you? country road, twists and turns 45~50mph safe travelling speed, how far behind the car in front would you be?

…

So if you can see sufficiently, what difference does tinted rear windows make?

Edit, I was looking for a measurement of distance? As safety is clearly subjective given the driving behaviour I witness nearly every time I go anywhere in my car, clearly people have very different ideas about what is safe.

 

When I can't see through the vehicle in front, I do pull back a shade. Vans, lorries, caravans and buses make it advisable to drop back a bit; they all make it difficult to see trouble ahead – such as a car in front of them doing an emergency stop.

It's about time rather than distance. Human reaction time varies from about 100mS to 500mS or more. It gets slower with age, so beware pensioners who imagine they have the same reactions they had as a teenager; they don't. Interestingly, the fastest reaction times are achieved by boys in their early teens, and it's not maintained after age 20. After about 35, the deterioration becomes marked, and it's one of the fitness issues that finishes sporting careers.

Anyway, assuming the driver reacts within 333ms, and is in a line travelling at 30 metres per second (nearly 70mph), how much is notice is needed to stop safely?

333mS is 10 metres, so that's too close – the driver hits the brakes at the moment he ploughs into the wreck. In this time-frame the driver doesn't alter the outcome at all. His fate depends on how much energy is absorbed by the vehicle crumpling, how fast the airbag deploys, how effective the seat belt is in an extreme collision, and if the vehicle is struck by whatever is behind. Being seriously rear-ended is more likely if tinted windows prevent the driver behind reacting quickly.

666mS is 20 metres, which is still too close. Nothing happens for 10 metres and then the brakes go on. They have to stop the vehicle within 10metres, which is unlikely even if the tyres don't skid and the driver applies them optimally, and he doesn't have time to think.

A full second gives the vehicle 30 metres of stopping space, which is much better. Even so, the probability is the car will still be doing 20 or 30mph at impact. Although the driver might still end up in a meat sandwich due to being rear-ended, his chances of escaping serious injury are good.

Allowing two full seconds gives 60 metres of stopping space, which seems to prevent most accidents, especially as dead-stop emergencies are rare. We usually get more time to react.

I was taught to leave a 4 second gap between me and the vehicle in front. An over-cautious allowance when I was young, it makes more sense now my concentration isn't so good. Anyone else find driving at night unusually tiring? If so, allow a bigger gap. Same if distracted. Having a row with the wife, getting lost, dying for a pee, drunk, ill, tired, using a hone, or being unwell all play havoc with reaction times.

Statistically half of those reading this post are below average drivers. Anyone apart from me prepared to admit it? All my friends and colleagues consider themselves good drivers, including one who totted up enough points to be disqualified, and another who spent 3 months in hospital recovering from 'polytrauma' after a head-on crash due to him doing 80mph on the wrong side of the road.

Though I'd describe tinted windows as 'mostly harmless', I don't see much need for them apart from undertakers Private Ambulances. I suppose others might see them as a mildly anti-social selfish affectation, probably driven by a big-headed numpty proclaiming he's "special". Tinted glass wouldn't stop me buying a decent second-hand car though.

Dave

 

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/12/2022 10:11:07

[Steve NeighbourParticipant @steveneighbour43428]

It continues to amaze me how many (typically but not always younger drivers) have yet to work out the relationship between accelerator, brakes and tyre wear.

I also did the ROSPA advanced driving training (and managed a silver on 1st attempt at the test which I was very pleased at)

I can thoroughly recommend doing it, (you use your car and fuel) but the instructors give their time for free.

My instructor was a retired police advanced instructor and I certainly learnt a lot from that guy, and now drive to a much higher standard, but I certainly don't dawdle !!

My ability to 'read the road and predict what the other guy is doing' is much sharper than before, also my car mpg has improved and tyre wear is also much better.

[Steve NeighbourParticipant @steveneighbour43428]

Almost all new premium cars (Mercedes, Audi, BMW etc) have factory fitted tinted rear glass.

I have a MB estate, and all glass rear of the 'B' post is very dark.

• it provides security for any thing in the back
• cooler inside in hot weather
• looks really nice with the cars satin black trims
• was OEM so I didn't have a choice

From the inside it is almost indistinguishable from clear glass and does not hinder rear mirror vision, also rear passengers view is not compromised in any way.

[Terry BParticipant @terryb]

As well as the 2 second rule, the another mantra taught on advanced course is that you should always be able to stop in the distance that you can see to be clear.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, in the highway code, the typical stopping distance at 70 MPH is 96 meters, that being the length of 24 cars at an average of 4 meters per car. At 70 MPH you are traveling at about 31.3 meters / second, so that typical stopping distance at 70 MPH would take you about 3 seconds, however once you start to brake, which is after about 21 Meters, your speed will reduce very quickly, so your stopping distance should be within the 2 second gap rule, but this is with the vehicle, the road conditions and the weather all being in good favour. and with wet roads the gap should be doubled to 4 seconds and much more on icy roads. Other drivers will jump into a wide gap and the only thing you can do is slow down until you restore the safe gap. A two second gap at 70 MPH will be about 62.5 meters between you and the car in front, but if the car in front starts to do a bit of speeding, your gap should get bigger and bigger, so you should always keep an eye on your own speed.

The photo below shows a section of the M62 where there are chevrons that guide you to have at least two of these between you and the vehicle in front, these are at a distance of 40 meters apart giving you a gap of about 2.5 seconds, but of course larger vehicles should have a bigger gap anyway in good conditions let alone bad ones, I was a passenger in this 3.5 Tonne Peugeot van on a bit of a damp day, but I don't think we were traveling at 70 MPH at this point, although I did think we were a bit too close to the vehicle in front, but that lorry on the left was clearly a bit too close to the vehicle in front of it, as there was not even one chevron in view between them. I think the driver of our vehicle slowed up a bit to increase the gap, when I said he didn't have a two chevron gap, as we had quite a bit of heavy gear in the back of the van.

Regards Nick.

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Many people have claimed that security glass is more secure for anything left in the back, but is their empirical evidence for this or is it just a salesman's sale gimmick? My gut feeling would be the opposite, vans often have signs saying no tools left inside feeling that they are vulnerable from attack. Wouldn't criminals be more likely to break into a more expensive looking car on the offchance of it having something expensive inside? I always leave valuables in the boot, but as there seems to be a general believe that its ok to leave things in the back of a blacked out car, if I was a criminal these would be my target.

[Author]

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