Precision V-blocks (32mm & 7″) – any UK buying advice ?

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Hello

I need to buy some small (c.32mm) v-blocks ('vee blocks'??) + clamps.

Can you recommend any that are
a) "pretty accurate"
i.e. Accurate to say 1/1000 inch (0.02mm)

b) made out of good quality hardened & heat-treated steel, so that they will resist being accidentally filed/dropped etc

Budget: £40? (but hopefully a lot less)

e.g. Brand: "White Hinge" (c. £35)
2X Precision Engineers V-Block Clamps – 1"/25mm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B077Q7271M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2

e.g. Cromwell Tools – (c. £40)
Oxford.32x42x32mm WORKSHOP VEE BLOCKS C/W CLAMPS
https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/measuring-and-test-equipment/vee-blocks-and-clamps-steel/32x42x32mm-workshop-vee-blocks-c-w-clamps/p/OXD3702310K

e.g. Bluefox Tools (India) ) (c.£32)
"Precision Engineers Vee Blocks Clamp Set – V Block Matched Pair 1-5/8in x 1-1/4in" 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Precision-Engineers-Vee-Blocks-Clamp-Set-V-Block-Matched-Pair-1-5-8-x-1-1-4-/164123187633

e.g.Buy Brand Tools – BBT (c.£23 + incl postage)
"Precision V-Block Clamp Set"
https://www.buybrandtools.com/acatalog/precision-v-block-clamp-set.html

In general, are there any brands that you recommend for tools?
And are there any brands to avoid?

With thanks

J

PS I also need to buy some much larger ones c. "seven inch"

Edited By John Smith 47 on 19/04/2021 13:41:26

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I haven't trawled through all your links but if one of the named suppliers has the courage to state an actual accuracy figure rather than just 'precision' I would go for them, if in the future they are not as described you can get a refund. Loads more advice will follow shortly from different forum members.

Tony

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

The last link "Buy Brand Tools" is relatively cheap
Claims good quality materials: "Made from heat-treated, hardened tool steel for durability and extended lifespan."
Regarding accuracy they claim:

>>>
– Geometrical accuracy as per BS 3731/DIN 2274 Grade 2.
– Permissible height difference for matched pair within .0003" or 8 microns.
– Parallelism tolerance of v axis to base within .0004" or (10+L/50) microns.
– Perpendicularity tolerance of end and side faces to base within .0005" or (10+H/25) microns
>>>

The main thing putting me off is that I would like to have a smaller V one side.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

BROWN & SHARPE CAT NO750A No 106

1.25"sq x 1.625" long Big V + Small V with clamps A pair

PM me ?

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Chronos are showing a pair of "ultra precision" vee blocks on their web site for £25.80 including VAT and delivery in a rather fetching wooden box. They are 1⅜ " square near to 35mm, so might suit your purpose, but how precision is ultra-precision?.

RDG sell a varied selection of sizes – the smaller ones without the clamping facility. You don't state whether clamping is a pre-requisite.

John

 

Edited By John Hinkley on 19/04/2021 14:24:59

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

These occasionally appear on car boots – Hemswell (north of Lincoln) had a regular stall with quality tooling

I guess it depends upon perspective – I bought stuff with the expectaiton of learning so it doesn't matter if I dink it – actually, it does matter, but I get slightly less annoyed than if I had paid a fortune

And to John's point, do you need ultra precision assuming one has the means / skills to measure…? I know I haven't mastered this yet

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

The main thing putting me off is that I would like to have a smaller V one side.

I looked at that one and it does appear to have a smaller V one side, or even a larger V one side – it’s all relative, I suppose?

Edited to add that all the hardening in the world will not prevent you from dropping them!

Edited By not done it yet on 19/04/2021 15:17:55

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

For the small V-blocks (c.32mm) they MUST have a clamp.|

I stand corrected, yes looking more closely the Buy Brand Tools v-block does appear to have two v-blocks that are slightly different sizes. Unless the brand is known to be rubbish, I think I'll just buy them.

Meanwhile any thoughts on much larger (c.7inch) V-blocks?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You don't say over what length you need that 0.001" accuracy ? 1" , 4" 12"

Don't think I would bother with the Blue Fox as they could not even fit the clamps the right way round!

I think most will be within the spec you want, these ones of mine which came from Chronos I think are only a couple of tenths (0.0002" ) out over their length with my measuring equipment

Edited By JasonB on 19/04/2021 15:50:30

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

The Buy Brand is a 'must buy' at that price , new ,the B&S ones were nearer £80 decades ago !

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Slight worry about the precision requirement – does John need more than a matching pair? It's easy to manufacture two almost identical V-blocks by grinding them together as a pair. So even a cheap pair of blocks should match accurately, and two blocks are usually all that's needed. V blocks don't have to be an exact dimension unless three or more are needed together. If that's the case, look at high end precision blocks, £££. It's the multiple precision part that's costly, rather than what they're made of.

Much depends what they're for of course, but I avoid expensive tools for ordinary work because accidentally damaging them in the rough and tumble of my grotty workshop is so painful. I only buy expensive tools when essential, and they are cosseted for special occasions while cheaper tools do the work. Cheapo tools are ruthlessly replaced, which isn't often because I don't have to meet thrash-the-tool production targets. Ought to admit I see tools as expendable, not heirlooms: others positively enjoy handling quality tools, if that's what's wanted, go for it.

I got my inexpensive blocks from Machine Mart (VAT free day). In the same cost class as John's examples, they're fine. Although 'pretty accurate' and 'hardened', I take care not to drop them! One point that may not matter, but the clamps on expensive sets are usually (I believe) made of steel. whereas those on cheaper sets might be alloy. The blocks themselves appear similar – never had the chance to do a scientific comparison.

Tin hat on now. For what it's worth, I don't recall any V-Block quality complaints on the forum. I expect a barrage of examples will promptly descend on me from a great height. Watch this space!

Dave

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

If you buy blocks from the classic toolmakers like Moore and Wright, Starrett etc. Then they will be a matched pair with matching serial numbers. Many second hand blocks will have very low mileage and should meet your spec. But check the numbers. Buying new at the economy end of the market is going to be a risk, I would be looking to buy from a supplier that is interested in maintaining their reputation for acceptable quality at a reasonable price.

Mike

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

OK I have bought that pair of Buy Brand Tools.

For the big heavy ones (c.7inch), I am willing to sacrifice accuracy somewhat, but I do want clean flat faces and fairly sharp edges.

e.g. I am thinking about these "RDG Tools" ones:

"RDGTOOLS MATCHED PAIR VEE BLOCK SET VARIOUS SIZES MILLING ENGINEERING TOOLS"
(175 x 125 x 57mm) – £149.50
**LINK**

Have any of you ever hear of "RDG Tools"?

J

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Send them a msg asking the DIN standard, why sellers targeting the hobby user assume this is of no importance I'll never understand.

I'll pay you in monopoly money, as I assume the standard of my currency is of no importance.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/04/2021 18:24:51:

OK I have bought that pair of Buy Brand Tools.

For the big heavy ones (c.7inch), I am willing to sacrifice accuracy somewhat, but I do want clean flat faces and fairly sharp edges.

e.g. I am thinking about these "RDG Tools" ones:

"RDGTOOLS MATCHED PAIR VEE BLOCK SET VARIOUS SIZES MILLING ENGINEERING TOOLS"
(175 x 125 x 57mm) – £149.50
**LINK**

Have any of you ever hear of "RDG Tools"?

J

I think RDG tools is an offshoot from Myford in Halifax.

Steve.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/04/2021 18:24:51:

OK I have bought that pair of Buy Brand Tools.

For the big heavy ones (c.7inch), I am willing to sacrifice accuracy somewhat, but I do want clean flat faces and fairly sharp edges.

e.g. I am thinking about these "RDG Tools" ones:

"RDGTOOLS MATCHED PAIR VEE BLOCK SET VARIOUS SIZES MILLING ENGINEERING TOOLS"
(175 x 125 x 57mm) – £149.50
**LINK**

Have any of you ever hear of "RDG Tools"?

J

Hi John, RDG Tools they have been around several years and usually attend all the model engineering exhibitions and are based near Halifax, they bought Myford when they closed down.

Regards Nick.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by John Hinkley on 19/04/2021 14:24:29:

Chronos are showing a pair of "ultra precision" vee blocks on their web site for £25.80 including VAT and delivery in a rather fetching wooden box. They are 1⅜ " square near to 35mm, so might suit your purpose, but how precision is ultra-precision?.

RDG sell a varied selection of sizes – the smaller ones without the clamping facility. You don't state whether clamping is a pre-requisite.

John

I've just had another look at the Chonos "ultra precision".
Looking more closely, the V is too shallow so I would need to go up to the 2.5" V-block.

"Soba Ultra Precision Vee Block 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 2"

However the clamp has a diabolical design with an unwanted V in stupid place that will form a point of weakness:
 

What is putting me off is the almost total lack of any form of description. They say nothing about how accuracy, materials or anything else.

My gut reaction is that if they don't love their product enough to even describe it properly, why would I want to buy it?

 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 19/04/2021 22:38:59

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/04/2021 22:38:40:

.

My gut reaction is that if they don't love their product enough to even describe it properly, why would I want to buy it?

.

Best ‘rule of thumb’ I’ve seen in a long while, John

MichaelG.

[Dr. MC BlackParticipant @dr-mcblack73214]

Posted by John Hinkley on 19/04/2021 14:24:29:

Chronos are showing a pair of "ultra precision" vee blocks on their web site for £25.80 including VAT and delivery in a rather fetching wooden box. They are 1⅜ " square near to 35mm, so might suit your purpose, but how precision is ultra-precision?.

Anybody thinking of ordering from Chronos might like to know that using the code "SME1000" give a 5% discount on the Mail Order price.

Same discount to callers (when their premises in Dunstable are open)

MC Black

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/04/2021 22:38:40:

One might ask “why the grooves along the sides?” Does the price reflect only the single sized V. Is the buyer expected to make their own usual type of U clamp? If the through-hole is for securing it in the vertical, it looks very close to the V. Are there any precision dims provided for standing them on end?

Definitely look like those are cheap for more than one reason. I would fear that ‘ultra precision’ might only apply to one isolated dimension.

Dimensional description, or lack of, is important for some – but clearly not for many purchasers.

I expect my V blocks to work accurately in all orientations. But I do have some odd ones that are often ‘close enough’ for the use to which they are put. The angle of the V is probably the least important dimension.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I did find the side groove useful for clamping a pair to the mill table when working an a part that needed to come out and go back into the blocks a number of times, being a deeper side groove than usual the hold down clamp fits well.. The type of clamp shown doe shave the advantage that you can still use it if block is laying on its long side or stood vertically in a vice.

To the OP the clamps are not there to apply a great deal of force, mostly just to stop a part moving when measuring or marking out so unlikely to suffer failure, if machining then a proper clamp should be used.

Funny enough Dave should say he has not seen anyone complaining about Vee blocks and those saying non descrpt ones will be no good. Similar comments in a previous post is what prompted me to make that video of just such a non descript block. which far exceeds John's accuracy requirement.

John what are you using these Vee blocks for I get the feeling they may well be for jigging your plates with the "accurate" 45deg bevel that turned out to be +/- 1 deg

 

Edited By JasonB on 20/04/2021 07:50:29

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Remember that V blocks are fixtures for holding things in the V and so the V may be 90 degrees, but is not usually specified. The only time 90 matters in the normal use of a V is if you are fixing square stock, and in that case a slightly more closed V might actually be better as it will have 2 line contacts, where as unless the stock is actually 90 degrees and perfectly finished it might seat in an unrepeatable manner.

I have 3 pairs about the size you are looking at I can measure the angle of later.

For angle fixturing you really want an angle fixture of some sort – like a sine table (for instance)

Dave

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Seems the OP wants a silk purse but will only pay for a sows ear? If you truly want or need an accurate set of vee blocks paying less than £40 is unlikely to satisfy your requirements, I will leave it at that.

Tony

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/04/2021 13:54:04:

The last link "Buy Brand Tools" is relatively cheap
Claims good quality materials: "Made from heat-treated, hardened tool steel for durability and extended lifespan."
Regarding accuracy they claim:

>>>
– Geometrical accuracy as per BS 3731/DIN 2274 Grade 2.

.

BS 3731:1987 … Specification for vee blocks

Makes interesting [and concise] reading.

MichaelG.

.

Ref. https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail?pid=000000000000176247

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/04/2021 09:22:20

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